Real value of the upgrade options

So I visited the Cleveland IMS show and saw the 1199 in person. I do really like the bike. Only issue is not being able to sit on the bike. I understand why, but it would be nice to sit on a bike before spending up to $30K USD.

But it got me thinking, trying to analyze the price of the bike and options that come on the bike with the S or S-Tricolore. Hopefully others can chime in and help make these numbers more accurate.
Rounding numbers where appropriate and prices in U.S. Dollars.
We also have to keep in mind that upgrading the suspension doesn't mean the Base model doesn't have forks and shocks. Not sure how to fully account for this.

1199: $18K
1199S: $23K
1199S Tricolore: $28K

1199:$18K base
ABS: $1K

1199S: $23K base
ABS: $1K
Carbon Front Fender: $350
LED upgrade on headlights: Cool but how much?
Ohlins NIX30 forks w/DES: $2.5K - $3K w/o DES, another $500 or $1K since newer technology?
Ohlins TTX36 rear shock w/ DES: $1500 w/o DES, not sure how much to guess another $500 or $1000?
Marchesini Forged aluminum wheels: $2.5 or 3K estimated
Ohlins Steering Damper: $500

1199S Tricolore: $28K Base
ABS: Included
Options/upgrades: Same as on the "S"
Slip on Termi's: If they are the ones listed on the accessory Ducati site, then $2K
null - Ducati Accessories
DDA: $600
DDA+ kit - Ducati Superbike Accessories


Conclusions so far:

1199S is ($5K) more than base 1199 and includes carbon front fender ($350), LED Headlights ($500?), Suspension ($4K-$6K), Wheels ($2.5-$3K). Seems like at least $7K in upgrades for $5K. Dare I say a good deal?

1199S Tricolore is ($5K) more than 1199S and includes ABS ($1K), Termi's ($2K), DDA ($600). Not sure how much a dealer would charge for installation. But this leaves about $1K for the paint job and limited production value?? Not so sure about the value in this one.

Chris

$10k justified as easy as that - you gotta love man-logic

Man logic - GOOD

Whatever it takes..

Anyone care to provide pricing estimates to make this thread more accurate?

You forgot the Ohlins damper, that's worth $500.

If you get the S, the first problem is that you're getting OEM Ohlins. For them to be even remotely as good as the retail version, they'll need to be revalved and sprung for your weight.

Let's look at a comparison. You can get the Ohlins internals 30mm kit with TTX36 MKI for $2250 that's sprung for your weight. $2400 after installation. This will be better than the OEM Ohlins from the factory anyway.

or

You get the Ohlins FGRT 200 for $2310 and the shock for $1190, total of $3500. Except you have a major benefit here, you have spares and could sell your stock forks / shock.

I added the steering damper to the OP.

Interesting point regarding the suspension. Does anyone know where to find out the differences between retail stuff and OEM Ducati Ohlins? I placed order for S Tri version in part of course due to the suspension upgrade.

Chris

turnone said:

I added the steering damper to the OP.

Interesting point regarding the suspension. Does anyone know where to find out the differences between retail stuff and OEM Ducati Ohlins? I placed order for S Tri version in part of course due to the suspension upgrade.

Chris

Click to expand...

It's a well known fact with Ducatis and any other bike that has OEM Ohlins for that matter. Mass produced pistons. Call any suspension shop and they'll explain it to you better than I can.

The electronics are just a gimmick, all it's doing is allowing you to pre-set some suspension setups.

So my point is you need to respring and revalve your OEM setup to actually get it good, which adds to the cost of getting the S. It's $260 for new pistons and $120 for springs plus installation, so around $600 total to add.

FrostyFire said:

It's a well known fact with Ducatis and any other bike that has OEM Ohlins for that matter. Mass produced pistons. Call any suspension shop and they'll explain it to you better than I can.

The electronics are just a gimmick, all it's doing is allowing you to pre-set some suspension setups.

So my point is you need to respring and revalve your OEM setup to actually get it good, which adds to the cost of getting the S. It's $260 for new pistons and $120 for springs plus installation, so around $600 total to add.

Click to expand...

I wouldn't exactly call it a gimmick. It may not be useful to everyone, but being able to monkey around with the settings just by clicking thru some menus and then store those settings so you can easily switch between them sounds like something a cool nerd like me could have fun with.

The question I have at this point is whether the normal replacement/drop in stuff will work with DES Ohlins. I think they would work, but not 100% sure.

turnone said:

I wouldn't exactly call it a gimmick. It may not be useful to everyone, but being able to monkey around with the settings just by clicking thru some menus and then store those settings so you can easily switch between them sounds like something a cool nerd like me could have fun with.

The question I have at this point is whether the normal replacement/drop in stuff will work with DES Ohlins. I think they would work, but not 100% sure.

Click to expand...

That's the flaw though. I get my suspension setup professionally on any bike I've ever had. I wouldn't want to muck around in the menus to change it, because it's not my area of expertise. Just my opinion anyway.

If you get the base, you're not getting DES anyway. For the S and above, you don't have to replace your OEM Ohlins, they just need to be revalved and resprung.

Being completely honest:

1) The 1199S+abs is €5k more than the 1199+abs I ordered

2) The 1199+abs is €4k more than the S1000RR I considered

3) The S1000RR is €2k more than the 2012 Blade I considered

Now, no matter how hard I push, I seriously doubt that on the road, I will ever appreciate the Ohlins, 800gm lighter wheels, nor see the led headlights.

The carbon front mudguard is another thing....... so that's ordered

S forged wheels are actually 2100gm lighter than the base cast wheels, so not a small change (or a cheap one). Better for sure, and definitely noticeable if you rode them back to back, but not something you'd likely miss unless you took a spin on an S. I'm not interested in the DES myself, but might be if it were more active. I figure I can twist the clickers just fine on my own now. S vs base suspension quality difference remains to be seen of course, but I'm with Frosty on that one; if the base bits didn't do it then better to source an aftermarket 30mm/TTX36 kit that's sprung and valved to your spec. Or cheap out and just respring/revalve the stock units for well under a grand.

The LED's are cool, but I can take em or leave 'em. I'd really be interested if they had dynamic directional compensation like that neat setup on the BMW 1600GT; now that's something truly useful. In the meantime if you want more light, toss some HID's in there until the aftermarket pipeline starts seeing LED product. It's coming...

The price difference is easily justifiable and more based on individual component prices; just look 'em up online. Whether there's value in it is more a question of individual priorities. Horses for courses!

Steve B said:

S forged wheels are actually 2100gm lighter than the base cast wheels, so not a small change (or a cheap one). Better for sure, and definitely noticeable if you rode them back to back, but not something you'd likely miss unless you took a spin on an S. I'm not interested in the DES myself, but might be if it were more active. I figure I can twist the clickers just fine on my own now. S vs base suspension quality difference remains to be seen of course, but I'm with Frosty on that one; if the base bits didn't do it then better to source an aftermarket 30mm/TTX36 kit that's sprung and valved to your spec. Or cheap out and just respring/revalve the stock units for well under a grand.

The LED's are cool, but I can take em or leave 'em. I'd really be interested if they had dynamic directional compensation like that neat setup on the BMW 1600GT; now that's something truly useful. In the meantime if you want more light, toss some HID's in there until the aftermarket pipeline starts seeing LED product. It's coming...

The price difference is easily justifiable and more based on individual component prices; just look 'em up online. Whether there's value in it is more a question of individual priorities. Horses for courses!

Click to expand...

An important note is that they switched from Showa to Marzocchi for the front forks found on the base 1x98. I believe Marzocchi to be a superior product than Showa, but the beauty of it still remains that it's a mass produced OEM fork. Even spending $600 on upgrading your base forks with the correct springs and Ohlins piston kit will be loads of difference. That is going to be my first upgrade personally.

Xbox said:

Being completely honest:

Now, no matter how hard I push, I seriously doubt that on the road, I will ever appreciate the Ohlins, 800gm lighter wheels, nor see the led headlights.

The carbon front mudguard is another thing....... so that's ordered

Click to expand...

What are you pushing for?

I've been thorough this a number of times, my experience has been that the OEM ohlins make a noticeable difference in just about every type of riding I do no matter how I ride.
The Ohlins are smoother with better damping and more compliant without being jarring or upsetting the bike.

Lighter wheels make a bike much more maneuverable and have a big difference in feel in the tight stuff - even going slow. And, the headlights will be a huge improvement when riding at night. (What does seeing the headlights have to do with anything?)

When comparing OEM suspensions the marz, showa and sachs units I've had on several ducs have fallen way short of the ride and compliance of the OEM Ohlins.
One day while on a ride with a buddy we decided to switch bikes on my 1098 tri and his 1098 base to feel the suspension differences - (we both weigh about the same and have had our suspensions adjusted).
We found a bumpy corner and both went through it several times slow and at speed and we both had the same experience and the same conclusion...
The bike with base suspension was harsh and jarring with the tires often jumping off the road and the bike even skipped across the pavement at times under cornering pressure when hitting the rough stuff.
The OEM Ohlins was smooth and confident and the bike tires seemed to never leave the pavement - even at speed. The Ohlins just have a much better feel and nicer ride.

Aftermarket ohlins have no value to me because I'm not going to use this bike as a race bike which is what they are designed for, they're sprung and valved for 100+ MPH. I find the OEM units are much better suited to everyday use. And the OEM units are just fine for the occasional track day.

I think that if you have had experience with a lot of suspensions, like I have, you'll find that the quality of the OEM Ohlins is very apparent in any type of riding whether it be commuting, just out for a leisurely cruise , or with your buddies canyon bashing. Lighter wheels make the bike feel lighter and more nimble and who doesn't want to see better at night? For me, they're all upgrades that are well worth the money.

The point is you can get aftermarket Ohlins for cheaper, and still have the base spares.

Man Logic......Brilliant !

I tried to do the numbers, it aint easy with such limited info. So eventually went back to good old Man Logic. My first Blade in 1992 was brilliant but everyone appeared to buy one, all be it in different colours. Don't feel the 1199 will ever be as popular as the Blade mainly due to price. Given that all the 1199's at least for now with be in Red (great colour), I went for the Tricolore as I believe only about 20% of 1199's will be Tric's so less likely to see another at my local bike meet. Man Logic. Also if they are as they say just making Tric's for 4 month then it maybe worth the extra initial investment, who knows, who cares really, I just want my bike.
Can't wait for the world press test results to come out from the Dubai 11th FebTesting

twobike said:

I tried to do the numbers, it aint easy with such limited info. So eventually went back to good old Man Logic. My first Blade in 1992 was brilliant but everyone appeared to buy one, all be it in different colours. Don't feel the 1199 will ever be as popular as the Blade mainly due to price. Given that all the 1199's at least for now with be in Red (great colour), I went for the Tricolore as I believe only about 20% of 1199's will be Tric's so less likely to see another at my local bike meet. Man Logic. Also if they are as they say just making Tric's for 4 month then it maybe worth the extra initial investment, who knows, who cares really, I just want my bike.
Can't wait for the world press test results to come out from the Dubai 11th FebTesting

Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more. Get what you want and what makes you happy.
No "one fits all" solution here

twobike said:

I tried to do the numbers, it aint easy with such limited info. So eventually went back to good old Man Logic. My first Blade in 1992 was brilliant but everyone appeared to buy one, all be it in different colours. Don't feel the 1199 will ever be as popular as the Blade mainly due to price. Given that all the 1199's at least for now with be in Red (great colour), I went for the Tricolore as I believe only about 20% of 1199's will be Tric's so less likely to see another at my local bike meet. Man Logic. Also if they are as they say just making Tric's for 4 month then it maybe worth the extra initial investment, who knows, who cares really, I just want my bike.
Can't wait for the world press test results to come out from the Dubai 11th FebTesting

Click to expand...

Really??? Will you .... a brick if another Tricolore shows up to bike night? Give me a break.

I went with the Tricolore as well because sometimes it depreciates less when you buy the best one offered (no guarantee here). Less need to modify the bike and I have been through this before. As soon as you buy a bike, everyone wants to know how many mods you have done. If you mod a bike, you see pennies on the dollar for those items if you sell within the first few years and eventually it hurts resale. Five or ten years later, people want a bone stock one which helps with resale value.

Seems that most of the presell units are Tricolore's over the standard and the "S". I guess at least 50/50, maybe as high as 2/1. So I don't know how exclusive it will be. I hope that these Tricolore's go quick and then they sell a lot of red ones making the Tricolore more exclusive. I hope they don't offer any more of the limited edition color.

Chris

Why do you keep calling it a a limited edition? I think that's just in your head!

Pretty standard logistics. They won't make more of the high end model because more people will buy the low end model. It's not a difference of a few hundred bucks here. We're talking $10,000 difference. There's no way you're getting $10,000 more when you go to sell it in 3 years base vs tricolore.

The 1199R will most likely be out in 2013 if you want to start throwing the word limited edition around.