Shell Advance 4t 15w-50

gobozo said:

I've been pushing for it and now my dealer informed me he too is expecting shipments. My understanding (which is limited) of the major difference is the base stocks, ester vs. Polyalphaolefins. Ester processing demands higher costs. The bigger question is whether they work for your bike. I found a homegrown mix was best for my racebike.

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A lot is made of Esters(group V), or multiples of in some circles

PAO's(group IV) are very good as well, just different horses for different courses.

Neither basestock in it's own right can deliver what's required and or expected of an engine oil.
Especially in this day and age as oil technology is being pushed to it's limits in some applications.

No one basestock is the best, and it's always a varying blend of different basestocks that delivers the goods in a "fully formulated oil".
Some essential additive packs come with group II or group III basestock as a carrier. So that contributes somewhat to making up the final blend at the end of the day as well.

The biggest growth sector at the moment in terms of technology is the group III's which are derived from a number of processes.
Shell is pioneering in one way with their GTL technology and it's possible the current Shell Advance Ultra 4T oil will be benefiting from it, where it used to be mainly derived from PAO's.

One thing is certain.
Oils will continually get better and we all will be beneficiaries in the long run

With the Mobil 1 oil being on sale, is 20w-50 too thick for the bike?

Absolutely not Mobil 1 is good to go.
What ever is on special for you to save some money.

Use your common sense and monitor the cold cranking capacity of the machine.
If it's labouring more than one is accustomed to when cold cranking, then perhaps it's a touch too thick in winter

The reality is that there's not that much difference in viscocity between a 15w and a 20w oil at the cold end of the spectrum with motor oil, and they concievably overlap without a problem.
Further, the Superquadro engine has a decompression function to help with cranking at startup, so it would be quite hard to tell the difference anyway
After all, we are talking about "true Full Synthetic" oils here so the cold flow characteristics are second to none

If you go ahead with the Mobil 1, let us know how it's working for you in terms of shift quality as ultimately it's the litmus test which we as motorcyclists tend to rely upon regarding suitability.
Personally I run Amsoil so i'm a bit biased toward a 20w-50 grade oil.
The only time I have sluggish cold cranking, is on my 1098 Streetfighter in the absolute depths of winter because there's no decompression function on those engines.

Xbox said:

But...... 300v is unquestionably the best smelling oil in existence

I also think the colour is amazing

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technically you can dump it in your backyard as its made from plants. i dont know if i would do that though.

does smell like banana though

just to put this out there. you could use the shell rotella the fully synthetic one and you will be fine also. i dont do this as it doesnt have corrosion protection but its 20 bucks a gallon. for 8 dollars a qt i use castrol (32 a gallon vs 72 for shell im comfortable paying 12 more over the rotella but not paying 40 more for shell). ive always used castrol in my cars so i use it in my bikes. the racing 4t is great stuff. shipped to my door in 2 days on amazon (and no TAX)

if your changing oil frequently it really doesnt matter. i know the bike can go 7500 on a change but i do 3000 so i get the castrol.

the bmw bike recommends castrol so i get a whole bunch of it nice and cheap boom done no worries about oil and i always have some around.

i use to use ams oil. but why pay 4 bucks more a qt for the basically the same thing.

i wanted to use motul as i feel its the best but its not 9 bucks more a qt better than castrol.

i am sure shell is great stuff but again not 9 bucks more a qt than the castrol.

same theory for me on tires. maybe pirelli is a better tire than dunlop but for 197 for a set of q3 it just doesnt make sense to pay 266 for just the rear pirelli. especially if your just riding street.

to each their own if your comfortable spending all that extra money go right ahead but dont say the people who dont are wrong just because you dont agree

I have always used Pennzoil in my cars does Pennzoil make an oil for our bikes?

yes they do 10w40 and 20w50 dont know anything about it though

I wouldn't run 5w-40 personally due to the fact that this engine circulates a lot of oil requires the right oil pressure. So I want to stay with 50. Also the Castrol 20w-50 is only 9.99 at autozone. amazon sells a case of 6 for 52.xx.

Amazon Castrol 10w50 Case of 6. $39 shipped after the 6.00 coupon on amazon

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008MISF54/ref=ox_sc_act_title_7?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

kickarsmann said:

I wouldn't run 5w-40 personally due to the fact that this engine circulates a lot of oil requires the right oil pressure. So I want to stay with 50. Also the Castrol 20w-50 is only 9.99 at autozone. amazon sells a case of 6 for 52.xx.

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the 5w40 is what is recommended for the bmw thats the only reason i put that there.

the first number is winter weight how it acts at a certain outside temperature. so if you are ridding in the summer time 5w40 or 10w 40 will act as a 40 weight oil. so its the same thing. the 40 is how it acts at running temperature (100 c or 210f f)

10w50 15w50 20w50 in the summer time are all 50 weight oils. it acts at a 10 15 or 20 weight if the outside temperature (not running temerature) is below i believe 40 degrees. i could be wrong on the outside temp.

When you see a W on a viscosity rating it means that this oil viscosity has been tested at a Colder temperature. The numbers without the W are all tested at 210° F or 100° C which is considered an approximation of engine operating temperature. In other words, a SAE 30 motor oil is the same viscosity as a 10w-30 or 5W-30 at 210° (100° C). The difference is when the viscosity is tested at a much colder temperature. For example, a 5W-30 motor oil performs like a SAE 5 motor oil would perform at the cold temperature specified, but still has the SAE 30 viscosity at 210° F (100° C) which is engine operating temperature. This allows the engine to get quick oil flow when it is started cold verses dry running until lubricant either warms up sufficiently or is finally forced through the engine oil system. The advantages of a low W viscosity number is obvious. The quicker the oil flows cold, the less dry running. Less dry running means much less engine wear.

b9009b said:

Amazon Castrol 10w50 Case of 6. $39 shipped after the 6.00 coupon on amazon

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008MISF54/ref=ox_sc_act_title_7?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

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Thanks for the link! Time to stock up. Do we have a thread for when things that go on sale? Tires, filters, etc. Because we should!

kickarsmann said:

Thanks for the link! Time to stock up. Do we have a thread for when things that go on sale? Tires, filters, etc. Because we should!

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I was gonna start one when I found the akra for so cheap, let me ask Phil and Steve if they are cool with it I'll start one.

kickarsmann said:

Thanks for the link! Time to stock up. Do we have a thread for when things that go on sale? Tires, filters, etc. Because we should!

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Be careful here.

That 10w-50 grade may not be the best type of oil.

I refer to the recommendation by DUCATI for the Shell Advance Ultra 4T as (a very good guide). It's the type of oil that's at the higher end of the quality spectrum.

I'll openly admit that i'm not a big fan of Castrol.
It stems from their constant chopping and changing of the names of their products, in order to update the image of their products through this cheap assed marketing ploy they're so very good at.
Don't get me completely wrong as i do use some of their stuff myself when cornered.
And i have also recommended certain Castrol products to others as the possible only available alternative for them in very specific applications, which fit certain strict criteria(price and availability).

But at the end of the day, you get nothing for nothing, and no good comes from no good.
Regarding my earlier post. Note i mentioned the different groups of oils.
My quick and dirty reasearch indicates that the Castrol 10w-50 grade oil you are looking at is potentially nowhere near as good as one would hope in terms of quality of basestocks.
Castrol are very good at hiding what it realy is, in the marketing garbage.

I put it to you that seemingly, the comparible Castrol product to the Shell Advance Ultra 4T, would be the Castrol Power 1 Racing which is generally regarded as a Full Synthetic and may very well be a good oil
It certainly does smell like a Full Synthetic, (and i've been known to put up to about 20 litres of the stuff into bikes on any given day).
Sadly it's not available in the grade that's arguably the best for our DUCATI's.

I would also argue that this particular Castrol 10w50 oil, may not be good enough for such a high tech engine as the Superquadro in the long term.

By all means go and knock yourself out on the stuff. but don't come crying here on this forum if the assembly fails for some lube related issue as you won't get any sympathy from me

Whilst viscosity is certainly the very first selection criteria of "any" oil regarding "suitability for an application". It doesnot ultimately define the "ultimate suitability for every application".

Oil technology has become very complex over the years.
Stick with what's understood to be the appropriate type, not just grade.

Caveat Emptor.

Brad said:

Be careful here.

That 10w-50 grade may not be the best type of oil.

I refer to the recommendation by DUCATI for the Shell Advance Ultra 4T as (a very good guide). It's the type of oil that's at the higher end of the quality spectrum.

I'll openly admit that i'm not a big fan of Castrol.
It stems from their constant chopping and changing of the names of their products, in order to update the image of their products through this cheap assed marketing ploy they're so very good at.
Don't get me completely wrong as i do use some of their stuff myself when cornered.
And i have also recommended certain Castrol products to others as the possible only available alternative for them in very specific applications, which fit certain strict criteria(price and availability).

But at the end of the day, you get nothing for nothing, and no good comes from no good.
Regarding my earlier post. Note i mentioned the different groups of oils.
My quick and dirty reasearch indicates that the Castrol 10w-50 grade oil you are looking at is potentially nowhere near as good as one would hope in terms of quality of basestocks.
Castrol are very good at hiding what it realy is, in the marketing garbage.

I put it to you that seemingly, the comparible Castrol product to the Shell Advance Ultra 4T, would be the Castrol Power 1 Racing which is generally regarded as a Full Synthetic and may very well be a good oil
It certainly does smell like a Full Synthetic, (and i've been known to put up to about 20 litres of the stuff into bikes on any given day).
Sadly it's not available in the grade that's arguably the best for our DUCATI's.

I would also argue that this particular Castrol 10w50 oil, may not be good enough for such a high tech engine as the Superquadro in the long term.

By all means go and knock yourself out on the stuff. but don't come crying here on this forum if the assembly fails for some lube related issue as you won't get any sympathy from me

Whilst viscosity is certainly the very first selection criteria of "any" oil regarding "suitability for an application". It doesnot ultimately define the "ultimate suitability for every application".

Oil technology has become very complex over the years.
Stick with what's understood to be the appropriate type, not just grade.

Caveat Emptor.

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brad it is the castrol racing full synthetic oil Power RS 10W-50 4-Stroke Motorcycle Oil as seen in the link.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008MISF54/ref=ox_sc_act_title_7?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

mark419ny said:

brad it is the castrol racing full synthetic oil Power RS 10W-50 4-Stroke Motorcycle Oil as seen in the link.

Amazon.com: Castrol 06412 Power RS 10W-50 4-Stroke Motorcycle Oil - 1 Quart Bottle, (Pack of 6): Automotive

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I wouldn't bother with it for our DUCATI's as it's predominately a mineral oil basestock.
It's not a true full synthetic.
It will most likely be loaded up with pour point suppressors and or Viscosity Index Improvers to achieve the 10w-50 grade which is quite a wide spread.
A narrow spread is more desirable in terms of shear stability/resistance. something like a 15w-50 or a 20w-50 will always be a better choice.

What DUCATI specs is a genuine type of full synthetic oil in the Shell Advance Ultra 4T.
For simplicity, try to stick with the choice of oils I have mentioned in my previous posts.
It would be hard to beat the Mobil 1 when on special in terms of value for money any day. Especially if you want to run it out for the full service interval.

Firstly.
Let price be your guide as to basestock type. A mineral oil will typically be quite cheap anywhere, and the higher class synthetics will always be more expensive up to the point of gouging (in some cases).

The art is in selecting the best value, or type that's an equivalent of what's spec'd, and to cut through the marketing crap.

Secondly.
Have a look at the Data sheet for the oil in question, and if the comparitive pour point(in accordance with the same ASTM standard) is at a very low temp(ie: in the order of about -42 degrees C or below for any 15w-50 or 20w-50 grade) as a guide, then your somewhere in the ballpark of a full synthetic basestock.

If you smell it(the Castrol RS), and then smell the Castrol Power 1 Racing 4T they're very different. Not like ........ Bananas
They even cling to the sides of containers differently to each other.
The former smells like old school oil(mineral), and BMW spec that type of oil here in OZ as the service refill, but in a 15w-50 grade(from memory) and it's only applicable for the fully air cooled boxers and all models below as of recent times.
The later actually smells like a type of synthetic(not like ........ Bananas), and BMW spec it(the Power 1 Racing 4T) strictly in a 5w-40 grade and exclusively for the liquid cooled Boxers, the K's and all the S1000's.

Regardless, I don't consider Castrol to currently make an oil that's truly comparable to the type and grade that's spec'd in the owner's manual for our DUCATI's.
This doesn't mean they won't bring something out in the future.

On reflection and for the record, I would like to take this opportunity to correct my use of some terminology in my prior post regarding the "quality" of the basestocks.

Regardless of the basestock whether it be a Group I or II mineral, a Group III "pretend synthetic ?", a genuine Group IV "full synthetic" or a genuine Group V "full synthetic".
They can all tend to vary in their effectiveness of the finished/fully formulated oil.
It really all depends upon the ability of the oil blender and their Tribology Dept to achieve the best results and doesn't necessarily reflect upon the quality of the basestocks used.
My previous labelling of one group of basestock as a higher quality over another group is simply inaccurate and inappropriate.
Each has it's own advantages and disadvantages.

In the interests of accuracy, a better and more appropriate terminology which I should have used is "Class" as opposed to "quality". My error

Brad,

Have you noticed Mobil 1 racing 4t is only available in Oz now in the 10-40....15-50 dried up about a year ago. I still get it from Pacific Petroleum, works out under $60 a bottle.

ruley said:

Brad,

Have you noticed Mobil 1 racing 4t is only available in Oz now in the 10-40....15-50 dried up about a year ago. I still get it from Pacific Petroleum, works out under $60 a bottle.

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Nope, I didn't know that.

Actually the last time I saw it was on special at Ripco, and that was the older 20w-50 grade stuff.

The Penrite offerings looks like good stuff.
It's certainly the right price.
If anything changes for the worse with the Amsoil I'm running, I'll certainly be looking at it as a fall back with the Shell as the last stop if the Mobil 1 is no longer available.

So far there have been absolutely no changes with the Amsoil for the last 8 years since the last upgrade.
That's what I like about it other than it's performance.
The consistency provides certainty.