Superleggera vs. 'R back to back on track

Pilot · Sep 30, 2014

I had the opportunity to run sessions back to back with my 'R and Ducati Westlake's Superleggera down at Thermal Club. I was less than a second faster on my 'R. I account most of this to setting the wheelie control on the SL at 1 and not wanting to crash. I was fighting the front end out of every corner as it clawed at the sky. Since I wasn't interested in buying new carbon for their bike I was letting off rather than seeing how the wheelie played out.
I believe with more time on the bike it would be easy to get faster than on the 'R. The increased power down lower and the reduced mass really makes it fun to ride on the track and for lots of wheelies. The brakes don't suck either. I have GoPro and DDA+ telemetry that I'll have to upload at some point when I get a moment.
If Ducati migrates this SL powerplant into the 'R at some point, it's gonna be baddass for all of us! It's a good time to be Ducatisti!

sean999r · Sep 30, 2014

Re Thermal Club, I'm out of touch I had no idea this existed, lived south of Thermal 98-03.
Thanks for the review

reganc · Sep 30, 2014

Pilot said:
I had the opportunity to run sessions back to back with my 'R and Ducati Westlake's Superleggera down at Thermal Club. I was less than a second faster on my 'R. I account most of this to setting the wheelie control on the SL at 1 and not wanting to crash. I was fighting the front end out of every corner as it clawed at the sky. Since I wasn't interested in buying new carbon for their bike I was letting off rather than seeing how the wheelie played out.
I believe with more time on the bike it would be easy to get faster than on the 'R. The increased power down lower and the reduced mass really makes it fun to ride on the track and for lots of wheelies. The brakes don't suck either. I have GoPro and DDA+ telemetry that I'll have to upload at some point when I get a moment.
If Ducati migrates this SL powerplant into the 'R at some point, it's gonna be baddass for all of us! It's a good time to be Ducatisti!

I was on the track with a number of them recently and they had no issues pulling clear of me on the straights. I was impressed

Marmoot · Sep 30, 2014

Is it mostly just the power? Or is it a real mix of power and lightness?

JeffD · Sep 30, 2014

Marmoot said:
Is it mostly just the power? Or is it a real mix of power and lightness?

If you're talking about motoring away on the straight, that's a simple enough calculation. According to Cycle World's report, the SL is supposed to be about 32.5 pounds lighter than an R at 393 fully fueled with the track-only Akra kit fitted. If the SL makes 10 more HP at the wheel over the R, which we will say is 185, then you can do the power-to-weight ratios:

393 lb SL wet weight + 180 lb rider with gear = 573 lb / 185 rwhp = 3.183 lbs/hp.

393 lb SL wet weight + 32.5 lb 1199 R add'l weight + 180 lb rider with gear = 605.5 lb / 175 rwhp = 3.460 lbs/hp

So with the same rider the SL has an 8% advantage in horsepower-to-weight. At the end of a long straight where the R is going 160 mph, the SL should be going about 173 mph. That's pretty much walking away and bit more.

reganc · Sep 30, 2014

JeffD said:
If you're talking about motoring away on the straight, that's a simple enough calculation. According to Cycle World's report, the SL is supposed to be about 32.5 pounds lighter than an R at 393 fully fueled with the track-only Akra kit fitted. If the SL makes 10 more HP at the wheel over the R, which we will say is 185, then you can do the power-to-weight ratios:

393 lb SL wet weight + 180 lb rider with gear = 573 lb / 185 rwhp = 3.183 lbs/hp.

393 lb SL wet weight + 32.5 lb 1199 R add'l weight + 180 lb rider with gear = 605.5 lb / 175 rwhp = 3.460 lbs/hp

So with the same rider the SL has an 8% advantage in horsepower-to-weight. At the end of a long straight where the R is going 160 mph, the SL should be going about 173 mph. That's pretty much walking away and bit more.

that makes sense, like i said i was surprised at how much these bikes were pulling away from me on the straights (it gave me major bike envy).

SPS996 · Sep 30, 2014

Can't wait for the video

leftcoast32 · Sep 30, 2014

The "R" is 417lbs in street trim where as the "SL" is 390lbs in street trim. Ducati states the weight difference of the "SL" as 26.5lbs lighter then the "R".

http://project1201.ducati.com/explo...mctr=(not provided)&__utmv=-&__utmk=204434771

My goal for my "R" is under 400lbs in street trim. I really think I can get it down below 400lbs without a problem. I am going to put it on the scales this week with a full tank, I think it is around 410lbs right now. We are attending a Track Day at Chuckwalla with Moto Forza on the 6th of October. This way I can compare the weight and track feel.

sean999r · Sep 30, 2014

Just for laughs because I'm a real lightweight
417 + 150 rider / 175bhp = 3.24 lbs / BHP

leftcoast32 · Sep 30, 2014

sean999r said:
Just for laughs because I'm a real lightweight
417 + 150 rider / 175bhp = 3.24 lbs / BHP

I am 155lbs before gear so a little heavier then you.

Yours should turn out great with your planned mods.

I am building mine a little different. SSTK exhaust and MAP, with switched fan function. Carbon for all the under fairing panels. 520 AEM conversion and a set of Mag wheels. I have a bunch of small mods done already like the Lithium Battery. Mine will essentially look the same as it is now with more power and less weight.

We are going to have to ride if you make it out to San Diego some time with your bike.

K3yra7 · Sep 30, 2014

leftcoast32 said:
My goal for my "R" is under 400lbs in street trim. I really think I can get it down below 400lbs without a problem. I am going to put it on the scales this week with a full tank, I think it is around 410lbs right now. We are attending a Track Day at Chuckwalla with Moto Forza on the 6th of October. This way I can compare the weight and track feel.

I have my base @ 405lbs with a completely full tank.

BAIBAICOP · Sep 30, 2014

OP thanks for the comparison! The rest of you guys: how many dead-hang pullups can you do at 150lbs? When I was that skinny (6'0") I was starving myself to race in novice against tiny Asian guys on faster bikes. I'm 6 years older and 50lbs heaver, but I can do 23 head-hang pullups and girls talk to me a lot more now.

Edit: not trying to thread-jack, just looks like it already happened.

leftcoast32 · Sep 30, 2014

BAIBAICOP said:
OP thanks for the comparison! The rest of you guys: how many dead-hang pullups can you do at 150lbs? When I was that skinny (6'0") I was starving myself to race in novice against tiny Asian guys on faster bikes. I'm 6 years older and 50lbs heaver, but I can do 23 head-hang pullups and girls talk to me a lot more now.

Edit: not trying to thread-jack, just looks like it already happened.

lol!! We called them dead hang pull ups in the Marine Corps because you are supposed to pause in the down position between each one.

BAIBAICOP · Sep 30, 2014

leftcoast32 said:
lol!! We called them dead hang pull ups in the Marine Corps because you are supposed to pause in the down position between each one.

Yeah I think you get 100% on the pullup portion of the USMC fitness test if you do around 15 dead-hang pullups when you're 18 years old. Shocked I could do more at more than twice that age. At my prime I could do 8 DHPU in body armor and loaded mags weighing in around 75lbs. That would have put my combined weight near 300 at the time.

sean999r · Sep 30, 2014

Yes but I'm only 5'8 so I'm really about same size or maybe a little larger than those fast tiny Asian riders. In my job I'm throwing around heavy chain slings approx 100lbs, rigging up & down my pole truck, drive off-road nearly day of work honing my skills & reflexes, live on granola bars, yogurt, drink red wine daily and when I have my heart rate and blood pressure checked I regularly get asked if I'm some kind of athlete, I but I'm just lucky it's genetics.

BAIBAICOP · Sep 30, 2014

sean999r said:
Yes but I'm only 5'8 so I'm really about same size or maybe a little larger than those fast tiny Asian riders. In my job I'm throwing around heavy chain slings approx 100lbs, rigging up & down my pole truck, drive off-road nearly day of work honing my skills & reflexes, live on granola bars, yogurt, drink red wine daily and when I have my heart rate and blood pressure checked I regularly get asked if I'm some kind of athlete, I but I'm just lucky it's genetics.

I dress as a Viking every Halloween because it requires no effort - I look like that every day. We weren't meant to race sportbikes against tiny Asian or Italian dudes. Point is I fight genetics every day on the track. Upside is, I've taken 140mph+ lowsides without a scratch.

leftcoast32 · Sep 30, 2014

BAIBAICOP said:
Yeah I think you get 100% on the pullup portion of the USMC fitness test if you do around 15 dead-hang pullups when you're 18 years old. Shocked I could do more at more than twice that age. At my prime I could do 8 DHPU in body armor and loaded mags weighing in around 75lbs. That would have put my combined weight near 300 at the time.

BAIBAICOP said:
I dress as a Viking every Halloween because it requires no effort - I look like that every day. We weren't meant to race sportbikes against tiny Asian or Italian dudes. Point is I fight genetics every day on the track. Upside is, I've taken 140mph+ lowsides without a scratch.

20 Dead Hang Pull-Ups = 100 points

I have always maxed it out since joining in 1985 at 19. I retired in 2005 and can still do them.

I am Italian so it comes easy (lol).

Seriously, it is a stupid fast bike at any weight!

TJ99 · Oct 1, 2014

Pilot said:
If Ducati migrates this SL powerplant into the 'R at some point, it's gonna be baddass for all of us!

Hmmm, now there's an idea...

Marmoot · Oct 1, 2014

I'm a relatively fat Asian. I weigh 65kg naked.

imbloodyskintagain · Oct 1, 2014

TJ99 said:
Hmmm, now there's an idea...

I would imagine for a R owner who can afford it, they could have a SL spec'd engine for $4-5k depending on cost of fitting the extra Ti Valves plus the SL cams and pistons and then getting you R crank done to SL spec.

Superleggera vs. 'R back to back on track

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