Thoughts on Akrapovic:1299s

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I ran my full evo system without anything for over a year. No problems at all. Then I got a good deal on a termi upmap n figured why not. Worth a try just to see if I can notice any difference. If not, it would be easy to sell. I've noticed a better down low fueling than before. That's about it. There might be better overall performance by using the upmap but it's not required, just better than stock.
 
I never said it wouldn't work. That's why I gave the tire analogy. Would it get me down the road? Sure. If I put a little effort into it, will it work better? Absolutely.

This argument reminds me of when I was really into long range shooting competitions when I got out of the Army. You'll see someone with a $5k Accuracy International topped with a $3500 Schmidt & Bender. What's holding it all together? ....... $40 Tasco scope rings because "Hey, it works". The scope rings are the life line between your optic and rifle. I look at tuning the same. I'll take a proper tune over just about any upgrade you can think of on a bike.

Like I said, more flow = more fuel. Throwing a full system on a bike without compensating for this is half assing it. But it's your bike.
 
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Also for the record, I don't consider any "upmap" as a proper tune.
 
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I never said it wouldn't work. That's why I gave the tire analogy. Would it get me down the road? Sure. If I put a little effort into it, will it work better? Absolutely.

This argument reminds me of when I was really into long range shooting competitions when I got out of the Army. You'll see someone with a $5k Accuracy International topped with a $3500 Schmidt & Bender. What's holding it all together? ....... $40 Tasco scope rings because "Hey, it works". The scope rings are the life line between your optic and rifle. I look at tuning the same. I'll take a proper tune over just about any upgrade you can think of on a bike.

Like I said, more flow = more fuel. Throwing a full system on a bike without compensating for this is half assing it. But it's your bike.


what you said was it wouldnt work properly which is wrong it will work just fine with no problems

more flow = more fuel ok and. the sytem was designed that way.
your tire analogy was useless as nobody in their right mind would do that. i can ride on the rims alone too would i do that no.
on the other hand the akra system was designed to work with the stock mapping on the bike. that means it will work just fine without a tune as it was designed to do just that. could it work better with a tune sure why not but that isnt the question. it will work properly and you will get benefit from a full system with no tune. again just call akra. or go by what was posted or by a forum member that has one and has done it.
here is there phone number (949) 679-3491 let me know what they say lol
 
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^^^ I'm with him.

You still need a tune with the slip-on. The only difference between the stock pipes and Akra is weight. The diameters are the same. The silencer part is where the gains are made.

Go with Phl if all you want is sound.

You dont NEED a tune you dont NEED anything once you purchased the slips or the system. nor will it hurt your bike if you dont get a tune. i guess you know better than akra that designed the system for the stock mapping
 
I never said it wouldn't work. That's why I gave the tire analogy. Would it get me down the road? Sure. If I put a little effort into it, will it work better? Absolutely.

This argument reminds me of when I was really into long range shooting competitions when I got out of the Army. You'll see someone with a $5k Accuracy International topped with a $3500 Schmidt & Bender. What's holding it all together? ....... $40 Tasco scope rings because "Hey, it works". The scope rings are the life line between your optic and rifle. I look at tuning the same. I'll take a proper tune over just about any upgrade you can think of on a bike.

Like I said, more flow = more fuel. Throwing a full system on a bike without compensating for this is half assing it. But it's your bike.

also hey it works is much different then hey we designed a full system to work with what you already have not needing any adjustments.
 
I'm not calling anyone because I don't play the he said she said game. I'm currently out of the country anyway. I emailed Akra and two vendors. I've already received an email from STG stating that you need a tune. I'll update later.

I'm sure I can dig up an old email from my dealer stating the same if you'd like.
 
The reason it's safe to use a full system or slip-ons with a stock map is the fact that your bike is already set to run a bit rich from the factory, and setup to read through the sensors to run a bit rich, which means it actually adds more fuel than what can burn. In VERY broad terms, this prevents the engine from basically destroying itself, because, the fuel helps cool/lubricate the motor. They do this for the same reason they make your speedo read 1-5% fast, they need to error on the cautious side. This is also one reason they install a PAIR system, or the SMOG system, it helps burn the unspent fuel before that "soot" can be blown out the exhaust, since it isn't running perfectly ideal.

There is an extreme science when it comes to tuning, I am by no means an expert but I spent a lot of time trying to educate myself on the basics to provide at least a decent tune on my previous bike running a Bazzaz with AFM. 14.7 AF ratio is the "Stoichiometric" ideal condition for burning fuel in a gasoline engine. Now with that said, each and every motor behaves different, and produces power different from one another. The way they are designed they produce similar, but that is why there is big money in blueprinting a motor and getting the most power out of it.

So with that said, if you increase air flow in, and air flow out, the ECU on the bike uses the two sensors on the bike to adjust fuel, and will increase it, or decrease it as needed an still shoot for a targeted AF ratio set by the manufacturer. This is where a good tuner comes in. They have separate sensors and read the AF from the exhaust, and they override the bike to get the most HP possible by adding or removing fuel.

So, you don't need an up-map for a full or a slip on... BUT, you DO need one if you want to improve performance of the bike to it's best potential. Sure adding an exhaust generally will add some peak performance, as it is a restriction point, and your bike's fuel map already compensates for the sensor readings, and increases fuel. But if you want the most HP possible, you need to get good reading to potentially add more fuel, or subtract fuel to get it ideal.

Again, general ideas, but that's why it doesn't matter. The up-map does other things, but it does change a bit of the fuel mapping to get it more ideal, but you won't burn up your bike with a new exhaust, but you might hear some more popping out of the exhaust as it can't deal with all the unburnt fuel it added, and most likely, you will get worse gas mileage.
 
I'm not calling anyone because I don't play the he said she said game. I'm currently out of the country anyway. I emailed Akra and two vendors. I've already received an email from STG stating that you need a tune. I'll update later.

I'm sure I can dig up an old email from my dealer stating the same if you'd like.

ok so your vendor who is selling the tune tells you that you need one while the company that designed the system and posted on its website you dont need one :confused:

just to be clear i agree with you rogue. if it were me i would buy the evo akra exhaust for the 1199. save the money and buy a tune boy rather than buy the dp exhust for way more money and get that upmap.

all i am stating is the system is designed to be fine out of the box. can it be improved sure but you are not hurting your bike if you run it with a stock map.
 
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ok so your vendor who is selling the tune tells you that you need one while the company that designed the system and posted on its website you dont need one :confused:

just to be clear i agree with you rogue. if it were me i would buy the evo akra exhaust for the 1199. save the money and buy a tune boy rather than buy the dp exhust for way more money and get that upmap.

all i am stating is the system is designed to be fine out of the box. can it be improved sure but you are not hurting your bike if you run it with a stock map.

STG sells the exhaust, not the tune bud.
 
Wow, it looks like I started a fire. I think I am going to go with the 1199 full system rather than the DP 1299 system and get a third party tuning device. I am leaning more towards Rexxer because it seems pretty seamless and does not require me to install a module on the bike. I am not looking for the most horsepower and my main focus is on having a deeper, cleaner sound and having the bike be in a safe mapping condition.
 
Expanding on what I said, rewind 15 years ago... carb'd bikes. This would have screwed up your bike having a full exhaust installed, as it would have created a lean condition without putting bigger jets in the bike.

Electronic fuel injection is designed around oxygen sensors, so it collects data and increases/decreases fuel based upon the reading, so adding a full system, air filter, etc, won't have a huge impact on your bike, other than potentially a small bump in peak HP due to unrestricting the flow of air through your bike, but the bike itself will still shoot for a targeted A/F ratio on it's own already programmed in the bike. That's why fuel controllers like Bazzaz add/subtract fuel based upon RPM range, throttle position, etc. They know what is targeted by the ECU, then they read the A/F ratio, and add/subtract, tricking the injectors after it gets the signal from the ECU.

This is why I like the Tune Boy approach. Write over the ECU with a correct target of information, and adjust to get the most power without a piggyback unit to potentially mess up. Less to go wrong.

Wow, it looks like I started a fire. I think I am going to go with the 1199 full system rather than the DP 1299 system and get a third party tuning device. I am leaning more towards Rexxer because it seems pretty seamless and does not require me to install a module on the bike. I am not looking for the most horsepower and my main focus is on having a deeper, cleaner sound and having the bike be in a safe mapping condition.

That's what I did. I like it. Sounds great, almost too loud... almost. But it saved a crap ton.
 
On a separate note, if you were to buy the full evo system off of a website (revzilla as an example) would it come with this up map key, or do you have to purchase the full system from a Ducati dealer to get the key?
 
The Evo system doesn't come with anything. The Ducati Performance version which is exactly the same system but with the branding on the cans come with the upmap. $3500 vs. $5000.
 
Electronic fuel injection is designed around oxygen sensors, so it collects data and increases/decreases fuel based upon the reading, so adding a full system, air filter, etc, won't have a huge impact on your bike, other than potentially a small bump in peak HP due to unrestricting the flow of air through your bike, but the bike itself will still shoot for a targeted A/F ratio on it's own already programmed in the bike.

Well that's fine if the fuel injection system has wide-band O2 sensors and is fully closed loop operation but many are not. Vehicles with lambda sensors usually only tune the air/fuel dynamically over a very small throttle range at low speed and cruise. For the rest, especially at full throttle, they resort to ignition advance and fuel tables. So if you give them more air they run lean at full throttle just like the old days.

I'm new to Ducatis so I need to bone up a bit on them, but most other injection systems I have played with are of the type I described.

Cheers
 
Question to you "Technical Guys" on this exhaust discussion.

Don't you feel it's equally as important to run a quality air filter along w these pipes too?
(Regardless of brand, you want that engine breathing well and thus a filter addition)

I've ran the Termi Slips since the day I picked it up, and must admit felt a little better response after installing the MWR Filter (which as Mark will attest was an absolute mess to install the day I did so! Lmao! It's when they first came out n not many had done so!)

Lastly, in regard to the comments from our friend from New Zealand, I know I've never had mine a "Full Throttle" and would be very shocked to hear that MANY other members have TRULY opened theirs up to complete full throttle as well? ;)
 

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