Throttle vs Lean Angle

Desmophile · Jul 13, 2018

Watching FP2 from Sachsenring today and they are showing telemetry on Rossi's bike. He is often using 100% throttle at 45 degree lean.

I just got back from the track, Utah Motorsports Campus, and I am chicken to use 100% throttle at more than about 30 degrees. (use the Dunlop N-tecs) I am a consistent rider, in the bottom half of the A group, and I am 65 years old and one big high side could be the end of my riding career. I don't mind getting passed by the fast guys, and I am slowly building up some speed, only about 7 track days on slicks, 4th season at the track. It is taking my brain a while to adjust to what you can do on slicks vs OEM street tires. At higher speeds, the track is very different it seems.

Are MotoGP tires that much more sticky? Can I push the N-tecs further? Seems like I am on par with the faster guys braking and going in to corners, and through our chicane on east track, but they seem to get down the short straights quicker, and I know it not the 1199S's fault. I think I know the answer, I am chicken. But I would appreciate others thoughts/advice. In the end, I can accept being slower/safer, and riding for the next 10 years. paul

MotoX183 · Jul 13, 2018

Desmophile said:
Watching FP2 from Sachsenring today and they are showing telemetry on Rossi's bike. He is often using 100% throttle at 45 degree lean.

I just got back from the track, Utah Motorsports Campus, and I am chicken to use 100% throttle at more than about 30 degrees. (use the Dunlop N-tecs) I am a consistent rider, in the bottom half of the A group, and I am 65 years old and one big high side could be the end of my riding career. I don't mind getting passed by the fast guys, and I am slowly building up some speed, only about 7 track days on slicks, 4th season at the track. It is taking my brain a while to adjust to what you can do on slicks vs OEM street tires. At higher speeds, the track is very different it seems.

Are MotoGP tires that much more sticky? Can I push the N-tecs further? Seems like I am on par with the faster guys braking and going in to corners, and through our chicane on east track, but they seem to get down the short straights quicker, and I know it not the 1199S's fault. I think I know the answer, I am chicken. But I would appreciate others thoughts/advice. In the end, I can accept being slower/safer, and riding for the next 10 years. paul

Have only ridden with the Dunlop slicks a little bit, but they hold really well. The N-Tecs let you keep the pressure fairly low on the rear, which will help with grip. You would be surprised at what these bikes can really handle. The electronics are pretty impressive these days and your 1199 isn't too far off the tech curve. The DTC does a pretty good job.

I ride at the front of the A group and the best advice I could give ya is to just incrementally add throttle/lean. You will avoid the big highside, but will start to feel the rear slide around a bit when you roll back on the throttle. It's not really a bad thing. You learn to make finer adjustments and can ride within that tighter window of control. Just don't drop it down to 50deg lean and whack it wide open.. go to like 35-40ish and add a bit more throttle. Keep increasing the throttle slightly until you start to feel a little bit of movement. You can correct a minor slide with no issue, but if you're too aggressive, it will step out much harder and may hook and send you on your way.. lol.

Desmophile · Jul 13, 2018

throttle/lean

Thanks for the encouraging reply. I will just take it slow and easy. paul

ChrisE · Jul 13, 2018

I think what you saw on the graphic for Rossi's bike was him holding the throttle wide open at 100%, but I bet the TC is controlling the power to the rear wheel.

Just a thought

maslov · Jul 13, 2018

That was my issue earlier this year... Geoff May and I spent some time together at JenningsGP. All we did was work on corner exits. By the end of first day I've dropped 5seconds from my PB, and for anyone who rides Jennings that's quite a bit, considering it's not a liter bike track.

Anyway, his point was to get more aggressive on the throttle as i reduce lean angle. As soon as the knee is off the ground you can go REALLY hard and it will hold... I will say I've ridden Dunlop slicks and switched to Pirelli. Dunlops use harder carcass and at least for me I had to ride them really hard to get them to stick. So just try to get more aggressive, not whack the throttle aggressive but progress faster from 5-10% to 80-100% throttle.

To demonstrate the grip levels he was literally smoking the tire coming out onto the front straight at Jennings bucking and weaving the motorcycle all over the place. His talent is beyond crazy.

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Desmophile · Jul 13, 2018

Thanks, Maslov

What you are describing you did/and I should do sounds right. I feel a lot more comfortable with hard braking/trail braking/lean angle mid turn than I do powering out of the corner. As I said, I think I am just chicken. I will work on this gradually.

I run in the Race mode with the default DTC 2, never tried anything else because I thought I should learn more before I started fiddling with what the factory thought would work. Any suggestions there?

Earlier in this season the Dunlops seemed to show some minor cold tearing. I probably am riding them harder now, and ambient was 95-100 with track surface 140-160 the last couple track days, and the tire looks like the Dave Moss video says it should. They seem to like the warm weather. paul

Desmophile · Jul 13, 2018

Thanks, ChrisE,

Ah, you may be right. I drive a corvette that has "performance traction management" amongst the electronic nannies, and you can hit the apex of a corner and just roll quickly to full throttle, and you can hear the engine back peddle a little until you get to the point it can go back to full power and not break the rear end loose.

It took a while before I was willing to believe that worked but I eventually experiemented in slow corners with wide run off and it is pretty amazing how it works.

It will probably take me a little while longer to get to where I trust the DTC enough to test it well. I will go at it slowly. The penalty is a little higher on the Ducati.

maslov · Jul 14, 2018

Desmophile said:
Thanks, Maslov

What you are describing you did/and I should do sounds right. I feel a lot more comfortable with hard braking/trail braking/lean angle mid turn than I do powering out of the corner. As I said, I think I am just chicken. I will work on this gradually.

I run in the Race mode with the default DTC 2, never tried anything else because I thought I should learn more before I started fiddling with what the factory thought would work. Any suggestions there?

Earlier in this season the Dunlops seemed to show some minor cold tearing. I probably am riding them harder now, and ambient was 95-100 with track surface 140-160 the last couple track days, and the tire looks like the Dave Moss video says it should. They seem to like the warm weather. paul

I run DTC in the same setting as you. Honestly I don't trust the electronics much and just keep it there for that Oh .... moment... I do notice the light working hard as the day progresses and tires wear out.

Also as far as tires are concerned, it's good to play around with those. On pirellis I was able to feel a big difference between SC3 that I ran the first day and SC2 the second day. 3 slipped around more than 2 but surprisingly my best times were in the 3...

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ChrisE · Jul 14, 2018

One of the things MM#93 mentioned, early in his first season of MotoGP, after moving up from Moto2, he said, once you trust it, you can just go wide open on the throttle exiting a corner and let the electronics control the tire spin, something that was not possible in Moto2 as they didn't have TC

maslov · Jul 14, 2018

ChrisE said:
One of the things MM#93 mentioned, early in his first season of MotoGP, after moving up from Moto2, he said, once you trust it, you can just go wide open on the throttle exiting a corner and let the electronics control the tire spin, something that was not possible in Moto2 as they didn't have TC

He forgot to mention that you also need to learn how to pick up the bike with your elbow... lol

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ChrisE · Jul 14, 2018

Cars have 4 contact points. Motorcycles have 2.

Unless you are #93, and then you regularly have 4.

Desmophile · Jul 14, 2018

ChrisE said:
One of the things MM#93 mentioned, early in his first season of MotoGP, after moving up from Moto2, he said, once you trust it, you can just go wide open on the throttle exiting a corner and let the electronics control the tire spin, something that was not possible in Moto2 as they didn't have TC

That sounds like what the magazine guys are saying about the V4 with its yaw/slide control.

IF I were ever going to try WOT at apex and 30 degrees lean, I will try it on a 45mph corner with good run off at the end of the season. IF I were going to try this would I be better off starting in sport, or even wet, mode and then graduate to race mode if I had all my skin intact?

Throttle vs Lean Angle

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