V4 owners - 15w50 oil reports with testing - Motul 300v / Redline Power Sports / Motul 7100 - Part 1

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NYCV4S said:
The only other factor you can have in an oil to use with a dry clutch is alot of added Moly to the oil. The redline has 100 ppm of moly and im pretty sure the Maxima has close to none , at that point you can go with car oils but honestly if you notice my chart i posted on wear testing , that some of the car oils didn't even perform as well as the redline or the maxima.

The key is running an oil that wont sheer or breakdown over heat cycles and time. Give redline or maxima a go and your already getting top tier performance from these oils , i cant see anything else being better. Id even at some point like to lab test the $40 a quart ducati stuff because i bet its very very similar to the redline.
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If you really want to test a real super duper racing oil, try MOTUL 300V ROAD RACING KIT OIL 2376H 0W-30 4T. It’s the real deal, but not meant for street use. Motul makes it for Honda HRC. It’s in the same category as the Ducati / Shell $40 race oil. As far as I know, these are the only two real motorcycle race oils. Even for track days, I would stick with one of the 3 oils you’re testing.
The simple way to understand motorcycle oil. Each of these 3 motorcycle oils have the JASO approval. That means you can use them in a wet or dry clutch. You can also use them in any gas car or truck engine. They exceed the warranty requirements, and that means they aren’t on any approved list. You cannot use auto or truck gas engine oil in a motorcycle. For what it’s worth, these 3 oils aren’t on any motorcycle approved list. It’s because of the emissions system.

IMG_7850.jpeg
 
VYRUS said:
If you really want to test a real super duper racing oil, try MOTUL 300V ROAD RACING KIT OIL 2376H 0W-30 4T. It’s the real deal, but not meant for street use. Motul makes it for Honda HRC. It’s in the same category as the Ducati / Shell $40 race oil. As far as I know, these are the only two real motorcycle race oils. Even for track days, I would stick with one of the 3 oils you’re testing.
The simple way to understand motorcycle oil. Each of these 3 motorcycle oils have the JASO approval. That means you can use them in a wet or dry clutch. You can also use them in any gas car or truck engine. They exceed the warranty requirements, and that means they aren’t on any approved list. You cannot use auto or truck gas engine oil in a motorcycle. For what it’s worth, these 3 oils aren’t on any motorcycle approved list. It’s because of the emissions system.

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0/30 would be way to thin in this motor and wouldn’t have sufficient HTST to provide heat protection or bearing Wear protection. Again it’s for racing so I’m sure the lighter weight of it allows for less drag internally freeing up some pony’s . if this was made for a Honda calling for 10/40 weight it could be okay . But not for Ducatis motor calling for such Heavier weight.. Then again some race teams are willing sacrifice an engine to win a race series anyway.
 
Greetings folks. I am new here and am just starting to get to all the discussions.
I would like to add some thoughts on this lubrication talk and I'm sure a few will not agree, but anyway.....
I've been using Amsoil products for 4 decades and I would like to suggest you at least go to their website and look around. What they offer is unmatched and they have been around for over 50 years. Companies like Lingenfelter, Banks and more have moved to their products for good reason. I know they are not bike people, but they certainly know about high stress engine engineering ( so do I ). Happy researching!
 
Durhamboy said:
Greetings folks. I am new here and am just starting to get to all the discussions.
I would like to add some thoughts on this lubrication talk and I'm sure a few will not agree, but anyway.....
I've been using Amsoil products for 4 decades and I would like to suggest you at least go to their website and look around. What they offer is unmatched and they have been around for over 50 years. Companies like Lingenfelter, Banks and more have moved to their products for good reason. I know they are not bike people, but they certainly know about high stress engine engineering ( so do I ). Happy researching!
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ran that in my 120K mile 2012 mustang (new5.0)! never had any issues with that oil, and my blackstone reports on them were always good "ok to increase intervals" was always their recommendations....i ended up running between 7500-10000 miles between changes...that mustang was tuned/intake/exhaust...nothing fancy but ran 11.8s @ 118mph...Was a fun kinda fast car haha!

Jag
 
Ducati’s and motorcycles in general, have been my life long passion. I’m 77, and that means I didn’t just fall off the turnip truck. My full time job was working for Mercedes-Benz service for almost 60 years. I can’t really say exactly what I’ve done for the last 15 years, but I’ve been heavily involved in oil related emissions failures and their oil related recalls. These failures are not unique to Mercedes. KTM and other manufacturers are also in trouble. These oil related problems are way more complicated than I can explain here. For example, the camshaft failures in motorcycles, has been happening in automotive engines for 40 years. Auto manufacturers have used the same lame excuses as motorcycle manufacturers are now using.
What Ducati and other motorcycle owners need to understand, all manufacturers lie about their engine failures. Customers want to believe the manufacturers recommendations. When it comes to the recommend oil, you cannot believe what any manufacturer tells you. Some engines operated in certain conditions may not have problems. But with so many manufacturers denying problems and dumping the repair cost onto their customers, you need to educate yourself and really understand what goes into the very best oil for your specific engine and its operating conditions.
These 3 oils being discussed here, Motul 300V, Red Line Power Sport, and Maxima Extra, are the very best money can buy. Use the correct viscosity and change it very frequently. Waiting until a manufacturer finally admits they have a problem, will be a disappointment. There may be other oils that are decent. If you saw all the lying that I’ve seen, it isn’t worth the risk.
 
VYRUS said:
Ducati’s and motorcycles in general, have been my life long passion. I’m 77, and that means I didn’t just fall off the turnip truck. My full time job was working for Mercedes-Benz service for almost 60 years. I can’t really say exactly what I’ve done for the last 15 years, but I’ve been heavily involved in oil related emissions failures and their oil related recalls. These failures are not unique to Mercedes. KTM and other manufacturers are also in trouble. These oil related problems are way more complicated than I can explain here. For example, the camshaft failures in motorcycles, has been happening in automotive engines for 40 years. Auto manufacturers have used the same lame excuses as motorcycle manufacturers are now using.
What Ducati and other motorcycle owners need to understand, all manufacturers lie about their engine failures. Customers want to believe the manufacturers recommendations. When it comes to the recommend oil, you cannot believe what any manufacturer tells you. Some engines operated in certain conditions may not have problems. But with so many manufacturers denying problems and dumping the repair cost onto their customers, you need to educate yourself and really understand what goes into the very best oil for your specific engine and its operating conditions.
These 3 oils being discussed here, Motul 300V, Red Line Power Sport, and Maxima Extra, are the very best money can buy. Use the correct viscosity and change it very frequently. Waiting until a manufacturer finally admits they have a problem, will be a disappointment. There may be other oils that are decent. If you saw all the lying that I’ve seen, it isn’t worth the risk.
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77! WOW and still sharp as a tac! i appreciate your contributions to the culture and knowledge base of these forums. I'm glad you are here man!
JAG
 
Shell Advance Ducati 15W-50 test results:

1733345284290.png

Doesn't seem like anything special, anti-wear in the 800-900 range. Molybdenum is pretty high at 118.
 
BP PanigaleV4S said:
Shell Advance Ducati 15W-50 test results:

View attachment 58439
Doesn't seem like anything special, anti-wear in the 800-900 range.
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See i mentioned it wasn't good oil . EPA standard by the law type of oil with that low of ZDDP.

The only good thing that oil has is a high CST100 value of 20.5 this Means it will stay in grade longer as its thicker in viscosity , however over time that will not protect your engine like the others will due to it having no Anti wear additives .

Ether way its Good data to be collected, ill add it all to the sheet once i get the maxima oil sampled as well.
 
So if I'm getting this straight, with 300V change the oil at around 500 miles, with Redline Powersports change it around 1000-2000, and what about the Maxima Extra?
 
cmh210 said:
So if I'm getting this straight, with 300V change the oil at around 500 miles, with Redline Powersports change it around 1000-2000, and what about the Maxima Extra?
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Same intervals for the maxima as redline for now , I have yet to see the used sample of it to see if sheers like 300v . Soon enough I’ll sample a 800-1000 mile used sample & send to the oil lab .

I personally change every 1k miles or 1 year which ever comes first.

I wouldn’t let any oil go past 2000 miles on any bike. and past 3000 on any car.
 
Thank you! I appreciate sharing valuable knowledge. I currently run 300V and change the oil once a year. I don't ride much, around 1500-2000 miles per year.
 
BP PanigaleV4S said:
Out of curiosity, what do you use in your car? @VYRUS same question. I have a F-150 and am right at 3K since my last oil change.
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I use Driven LS30 or Royal Purple HPS - both in 5w30 weight. I have a bunch of car oils in the bearing test spread sheet. Take a look for which held lowest scars in the first 2 row sections of 40c and 100c . Some oils are race only oils like the royal purple XPR and the Maxima car oil as well. All others are street oils.

Both of these oils i use the Driven and the RP HPS have supreme cold start protection as well as Ester MPAO group 4 base oils.

I also to note have a 6.2 L - L87 in an 21' escalade , which calls for 0w/20 weight from factory ... instantly changed that water up a grade to 5w30 as historically the LS design motor always took 5w30 or even 5w40 in some corvettes. They only recommend 0w20 in big truck engines for fuel economy numbers since its almost impossible to get them to show a 10 or 12+mpg on paper , they need to lower oil viscosity to get that extra 1mpg & the green light on emissions of the EPA.

Even Speediagnostics owner and i had a discussion on this topic and he said it was the best thing i can do for the life of the motor and confirmed exactly what i said above is why GM uses such a light grade oil.
 
cmh210 said:
Thank you! I appreciate sharing valuable knowledge. I currently run 300V and change the oil once a year. I don't ride much, around 1500-2000 miles per year.
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No problem glad this info helps everyone, 300v is great oil. Track only or Just don't use it longer than 500 miles. It has a certain number of heat cycles. anything past 800/1000 miles for this oil your entering the danger zone , as i mentioned it sheers to a 40W fast.
 
VYRUS said:
Ducati’s and motorcycles in general, have been my life long passion. I’m 77, and that means I didn’t just fall off the turnip truck. My full time job was working for Mercedes-Benz service for almost 60 years. I can’t really say exactly what I’ve done for the last 15 years, but I’ve been heavily involved in oil related emissions failures and their oil related recalls. These failures are not unique to Mercedes. KTM and other manufacturers are also in trouble. These oil related problems are way more complicated than I can explain here. For example, the camshaft failures in motorcycles, has been happening in automotive engines for 40 years. Auto manufacturers have used the same lame excuses as motorcycle manufacturers are now using.
What Ducati and other motorcycle owners need to understand, all manufacturers lie about their engine failures. Customers want to believe the manufacturers recommendations. When it comes to the recommend oil, you cannot believe what any manufacturer tells you. Some engines operated in certain conditions may not have problems. But with so many manufacturers denying problems and dumping the repair cost onto their customers, you need to educate yourself and really understand what goes into the very best oil for your specific engine and its operating conditions.
These 3 oils being discussed here, Motul 300V, Red Line Power Sport, and Maxima Extra, are the very best money can buy. Use the correct viscosity and change it very frequently. Waiting until a manufacturer finally admits they have a problem, will be a disappointment. There may be other oils that are decent. If you saw all the lying that I’ve seen, it isn’t worth the risk.
Click to expand...

Its a pleasure to see someone else knowing the facts that manufacturers recommendations aren't always the best for your engines. Just need to gather as much data as possible and see what works best for engines and not to a standard that a government emissions law forces manufactures recommend to consumers.

Another point id like to add is notice how cars today have all 6-8 qt capacity now compared to years ago it was always 4-5 qt standard, yet displacement is becoming smaller as the new standard. The reason ive learned is that there was too much waste being produced from oil changes and the normal interval was always roughly 5k miles. EPA comes in , lets increase capacity of oil in engines globally and create a new 10k mile interval since its "Full synthetic" it will be okay.... Simply only done this way due to too much oil waste to be controlled and recycled. Now they want you to wait until your cars light comes on and run a full 10k on one oil change. Mean while most cars are leased nowadays and very very rarely do you even see modern motors pass the 150k mark before hitting a junk yard or needing a new motor. Win Win for the manufactures too as it will cost you $ outside of your warranty if there is an engine problem or you'll buy/ lease a new car by then & old car gets sold off and its someone else problem with the dealer making money on repairs paid out of pocket by the consumer who buys used.

3k miles change your car oil
1k miles change your motorcycle oil

simple as that if you want your motors to last.
 
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NYCV4S said:
So I had that thought as well . I’ve done the first oil change at 150 miles, dumped the factory stuff and filled with 300v , then changed again at 600 miles also with 300v (first service) , then again at 1000 miles also filled with the green stuff .

Each time there was less and less debris on the plug , letting me know the break in process was happening and I was effectively dumping out the left over debris. Virtually nothing on the plug from the change of 600 to 1000 miles . You would say yeah that’s because of the frequent changes but I noticed more amount of debris on the plug at the first 150 miles and then even less on the plug the next change from 150 to 600 and so on .

Reason I do most of my break in changes so frequently is to dump the motor of all debris as fast as possible keeping the break in period as clean as possible from scoring w/the debris that comes from early break in.

With that being said , good for pointing out the 1000-1990 mile change shown on the report having high metals . Well what happened was my stupid self drained the oil and forgot to sample from the drain plug while my sample containers were up stairs in the house . After drip drip drip , My only option was to then take the sample from the oil filter housing which holds the most debris as this test we are reading is counting everything on the outside of the filter element falling into suspension , which is not the way one should test oil .

However the drain plug at this last interval of 1000-1990 miles that you see the high wear metals on the test, the drain plug was spotless. For 990 miles it was cleaner than the first 3 changes .

Even though aluminum and copper aren’t magnetic, the engine for sure seemed cleaner to me especially the look of the oil . The high copper I would assume is some clutch material & residual from the left over oil from the 600-1000 mile change. And I pray isn’t bearing material as you would typically see lead before copper in the test results when it comes to rod bearings . At least I assume these bearings are made that way as most are.

I currently have fresh 300v in the bike again as my 4th oil change done at 1990 miles so this next test at 2500 miles will let me know the correct details of wear metals as I’ll be collecting from the drain and not the filter housing like an idiot lol. Hope that clarifies it. You can see the notes they put in the bottom section of the report as well mentioned the same .

This is the last round of 300v for me and Redline will be going in next to run for the next 1k miles and test results .
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So are you saying 300 V is great for breaking in the motor? I’m picking up a V4R with just under 1000 miles and if I read what you’re doing right, I should change the oil with 300 V and run it for 500 miles, and do that 2 to 3 more times before switching to red line or Maxima? Thanks for sharing your knowledge here!
 
BP PanigaleV4S said:
Out of curiosity, what do you use in your car? @VYRUS same question. I have a F-150 and am right at 3K since my last oil change.
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In the Summer, I use Maxima Extra 10W/60 in my gas engine car's & trucks. I live in Northern California where the Summer ambient temperatures are frequently over 100F. In the Winter, I use Maxima Extra 5W/40. I change the oil every 3000 miles or before the start of the Summer or Winter. If I'm towing my motorcycle trailer through the mountains in the Summer, I use Red Line 20W/60 motorcycle oil. In California we have a major stretch of highway called the Grapevine. It goes over the mountains north of LA. It's about 40 miles. In August, it's not uncommon for the ambient temperature to be 115F at the northern base of the Grapevine. It's a steep climb up and over the mountains & into LA. People who've never driven these types of roads can't believe anyone would use 20W/60 oil in an engine. On the other hand, I can't believe anyone would use 0W/16 in a turbocharged truck towing up the Grapevine in August. I always use motorcycle oil in my gas engine cars & trucks. Motorcycle oil is generally higher quality than automotive oils. Turbocharged engines are VERY hard on their oil. If you have a Diesel pick-up, their oils are a totally different subject & much more complicated. However, there's one motorcycle oil that also works great in a turbocharged diesel with a DPF. Red Line 10W/50 Power Sport is also rated for diesel engines. If you think motorcycle owners stress over their oil, Diesel owners are way worse. Lots of motorcycle owner's also own Sprinter BlueTec diesels. I don't want to get into the diesel oil discussion, it will never end. But, Red Line 10W/50 Power Sport is the very best oil you can put in a diesel. This does not apply to any other motorcycle oil or other Red Line Power Sport oils. Red Line 10W/50 Power Sports is the only oil you can use in everything except a two stroke engine. It has the JASO approval for a wet clutch, & the API "CF" approval for a diesel.
"hurc" asked about Break-in oil. NEVER use 300V or any other synthetic oil to break-in a new engine. Break-in oils are Mineral based oil with high levels of zinc. If you have a dry clutch, you have lots of choices. Wet clutches need oil with the JASO approval. You also want to get the original factory oil out of a new engine ASAP. Driven BR40 10W/40 Break-in oil is an excellent Break-in oil for a wet or dry clutch. Change the oil & filter 2 or 3 times within the first 500 miles. Then use whichever oil you've decided to use for your type of riding.
 

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