V4 owners - 15w50 oil reports with testing - Motul 300v / Redline Power Sports / Motul 7100 - Part 1

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I dumped my 500mile redline 15w-50 this weekend, took 300cc sample and sent off to Speed D.

The flacks and gold i noted in the pervious dump were no where to be found, happy about that!
My super mag on the drain plug also had Zero debris for the very first time, happy about that too.

Will share report once i have it from speed. It was 514 very hard miles, I feel like my weekend blast days are on par with a single track day use/rpm wise..

Will be interesting to see how long this oil is good for...nice to finally start having some data for once too

Jag
I think it's a good idea to record the idle oil pressure (hooking up a real gauge) of these with fresh oil fully warmed up when these are fairly new. Then you have a reference and can got back every major service and check the pressure again with fresh oil. I think replacing the early oil pump with the latest rev (25's) isn't going to hurt anything. The motors have space such that ducati could have increased either the feed or scavenge or both. Curious to see what they did. I'm going to buy one when the part numbers are up. The motor (14K miles) I have on the bench had a bent (about .001 inch runout) middle main that opened up bearing clearances on the all the mains, center one being the worse of course. But even that bearing was not completely into the copper before it spun a rod bearing. So, my concern is this may be a common problem with these with the early pumps even with an okay motor when the mileage gets high.
 
I don't think it's necessary to hook up a gauge if one wanted to monitor oil pressure. There's already a oil pressure sending unit that provides oil pressure in real time. You can read it with the dealer tool / OBDStar.

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thanks, i assumed the stock unit was just a pass/fail kinda limit switch...not something with readout...ill do some more digging
My OBDstar for my V4SF euro 4 does not seem to have this ability. I too thought that it was a dummy switch. The problem with the regular automotive gauges is the cheap ones only go to 60 lbs. Gauge and lines probably less than $50 from summit. You'd need to measure the threads on the current sender (probably 1/8 pipe) and buy the appropriate fitting to go to 1/8 tube. The clowncar has about 40 psi at idle. I have no idea if this is good or bad (hasn't grenaded yet). This does give me a reference for the next time I check. These motors run high oil pressures, when building V-8's the rule of thumb was 10 PSI per 1000 rpm. You can't really measure high rpm oil pressure anyway unless the motor is under load like you're lying on the tank WFO in 5th at 15,000. Not the best time to be looking at oil pressure.
 
thanks, i assumed the stock unit was just a pass/fail kinda limit switch...not something with readout...ill do some more digging

When I get home I'll check again but I'm pretty certain it gives a readout. I don't think it was in PSI.

Further, with the OBDStar, you can record any sensor value so you wouldn't have to look at it. You could log RPM and oil pressure, etc.

ETA: it may be a switch. I found the p/n and a spec which is 0.15-0.4 BAR. Being that low, 2-6 PSI I think it’s tripping when the system is pressurized.
 
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I wonder if this is lower due to the wide spread use of electronics. When I lived in the California bay area (left in early 2000's) there were about 4 to 6 sportbike deaths a year on highway 84 alone which goes from Alice's restaurant to the coast (fine twisty road). So, it ended up over patrolled.
I’ve ridden the roads you’re talking about many times. Ducati once had a great event at La Honda just down the road from Alice’s. For those readers from other parts of the world, Alice’s is the premier San Francisco / Bay Area motorcycle hangout, similar to the Rock Store in LA. The area also known as the Skyline Drive. Twisty roads everywhere, but extremely dangerous on weekends. I’ve seen so many ugly motorcycle accidents around Alice’s that I don’t ride there very often. But on the weekends, it’s a blast… until it isn’t.
Let me clarify my original point about motorcycle deaths and serious injuries. The riders reading this forum are not your typical motorcyclist. Most of us have been riding a long time and know what we’re getting into. But for new riders to become old riders, they need to make it through what can be a tough learning curve. Our sport is under threat from many directions. Fewer people are riding today. For our sport to continue, more of the fewer young riders need to gain enough experience so they can afford the types of motorcycles we like. If there’s not enough riders, motorcycle manufacturers die out. Which I think we can all see is currently a problem.
I see the YouTube videos glorifying completely idiotic riders. While I can still remember being young and stupid, I wasn’t as stupid as many of these guys. I doubt many of these guys will ever make it to the point where they would participate in this forum. We’ve all known guys who quit after one minor crash. Some should quit, they don’t have the right mojo or whatever you want to call it. As we know, fast motorcycles don’t suffer fools for very long. My intent was to stress the importance of maintenance, and how it can help prevent some accidents. I’m at the age where I feel like paying back the sport and helping new riders understand the value of maintaining their motorcycle.
As you know, after some accidents you can’t tell what happened? Did some sort of fluid leak onto the rear tire? that contributed to the crash? I always assumed anyone riding a motorcycle understood how they worked. That was until a friend who didn’t ride asked me to help his son work on his motorcycle. The poor kid didn’t know anything. The point being, I’m more inclined to help newer riders with the learning curve. Instead of quibbling about some statistic, toss in some nugget of knowledge you think might help a fellow rider with less experience.
Trust me on this statistic, a day in your garage is better than a day in the ICU. And a day at Alice’s is the best of all.
 
Don't want to derail the topic, but quick question. To all the oil experts in here, where do you send your oil to be analyzed? I have used Blackstone once and that is it. They seemed good but I'm far from an oil expert. Just wondering if there is a better option? Also just got an email from Blackstone saying they are increasing their price to $40/sample next month. Really enjoy the info in this thread! Thanks!
 
I dumped my 500mile redline 15w-50 this weekend, took 300cc sample and sent off to Speed D.

The flacks and gold i noted in the pervious dump were no where to be found, happy about that!
My super mag on the drain plug also had Zero debris for the very first time, happy about that too.

Will share report once i have it from speed. It was 514 very hard miles, I feel like my weekend blast days are on par with a single track day use/rpm wise..

Will be interesting to see how long this oil is good for...nice to finally start having some data for once too

Jag

This is great , i will be doing the same with the redline but not until March or April . Its good to have your data since i have to wait. Also dont forget there is still some 300v in that crankcase so run the redline for a while and keep recording data. I would say you will be @ 100% redline oil in that engine after 2x changes from the 300v dump.

I have a really good feeling this oil will not sheer. Did you dump and sample the redline oil warm or cold?

Also how did the engine feel? Clutch feel? Did the bike run cooler as well? All data you can provide is helpful.
 
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Don't want to derail the topic, but quick question. To all the oil experts in here, where do you send your oil to be analyzed? I have used Blackstone once and that is it. They seemed good but I'm far from an oil expert. Just wondering if there is a better option? Also just got an email from Blackstone saying they are increasing their price to $40/sample next month. Really enjoy the info in this thread! Thanks!

Ive done about 20 samples with blackstone and 8 with speediagnostix , i recently sent out 3x virgin samples to each and blackstone had major discrepancies on the additive side. Ive since switched to speediagnostix for precision of data.
 
This is great , i will be doing the same with the redline but not until March or April . Its good to have your data since i have to wait. Also dont forget there is still some 300v in that crankcase so run the redline for a while and keep recording data. I would say you will be @ 100% redline oil in that engine after 2x changes from the 300v dump.

I have a really good feeling this oil will not sheer. Did you dump and sample the redline oil warm or cold?

Also how did the engine feel? Clutch feel? Did the bike run cooler as well? All data you can provide is helpful.
This my 3x flush with Redline, so i'm pretty sure the 300v is all gone...but cant say for sure of course...what i can say is there is no more green tint.

i drove the bike 30-40miles, got it hot with fans cycling on/off, drove home and dumped the oil into pan <5min after i shut off the motor (did my drive with lower belly pan removed to make this easier and faster when i got back), and I waited 4 seconds before i put the sample bottle in the stream.

Then i put the oil from pan back into my bike, and added 400cc of new redline to make up for the 300cc i pulled out and figured 100cc worth of loss in my pan and container i poured the oil back into the bike with.

I suspect the sheen and flakes in the oil pan after 500miles of 300V was clutch material as i did have some grabby clutch issues with the 300v, but that is totally gone now with the redline oil. Also there was no sheen or flakes at all after 514miles on the Redline.

Impossible to say if engine ran any cooler, it was always 3 or 4 bars, and the texas temps very wildly this time of year. The 30-40miles recently for the SpeedD sample ambients were 50F...but a couple months ago it was 100F.

Hope to get speedD sample back this week, will share as soon as i do!

Thanks as always @NYCV4S

J
 
I don't know how Blackstone can say this oil sample looks good? The Iron level is not good. 17ppm in a 500 mile oil sample is terrible. The aluminum numbers are equally bad. I don't know how much everyone has been paying attention, but KTM, BMW, Porsche & others are having serious oil related engine failures due to high camshaft & timing chain wear. Your iron number is coming from the camshafts & timing chain. I have a problem with all of these YouTubers beating up on manufactures because of their engine failures. I know the manufacture tells them to use their special approved oil & that they can go 6 or 7 thousand miles between oil changes. People who own highly stressed exotic engines need to get this through the heads. The manufactures hands are tied by the EPA. In order to achieve the test results for the emissions systems, they have to tell owners what you see in the Owner's Manual. They can't even give owners the "wink wink" & hint they should use different oil & different service intervals. Those days are gone. If you want to drive these types of high performance engines, you need to understand oil, or get used to arguing with Dealers and their Lawyers. You can't even trust the oil analyst. I’m impressed that a few of you guys are trying to legitimately figure this out. I’ve tried to help diesel owners, and they just keep saying the manufacture knows what’s best. Diesel’s have way more complicated emissions systems and the EPA diesel oils really screw them up.
As you dig into the technical details you'll notice that it seems like everyone is working against the consumer’s best interest. If you’ve ever tried to read Petroleum & Chemical Engineering reports, you would notice they rarely say anything in plain English. One example I read was 186 page report about soot in diesel oil. Talk about mind numbing. Soot in diesel oil is a critical element that the EPA diesel oil approvals fail to address, because they’re trying to cover up another problem. In other words, the older pre-EPA diesel oils are far superior. If you understand this, there’s a way to spot the better diesel oil in the Technical Data Sheet. However, none of the authors of these technical reports want to jeopardize their carriers by pointing out things that are country to the EPA mandates. Even if you could talk to an experienced Ducati or Porsche dealer mechanic, they don't really know very much about oil. They're to busy trying to beat the Flat Rate on warranty repairs. They don't have time to study oil technical data sheets. The manufacture recommends one oil, & they don't get paid to argue about it.
There are basic things that should be included in every oil's Technical Data Sheet / Material Data Sheet, but they're omitted by most oil companies. If oil companies actually reported this test data, consumers could figure out which oil is the best.
It was a major effort for you to figure out that 300V sheered down. Very few owners would do that. You should’ve been able to see that in 300V's technical data. But oil companies hide it. Here's what's the most important & what you should see in the technical data sheet.
NOACK Volatility: Oil is like water. If you get oil hot enough, it turns into steam. The test heats the oil to 450F & measures the volume of steam. The maximum the EPA allows is 13.5% in one hour. This oily steam is then sucked into the crankcase ventilation system. This is the It sludge you’ll see building up inside the engine over time. The very best oil's have a NOACK value of 3.7%. 5% or 6% is considered pretty good. As the oil vapor boils off the oil, the oil in your crankcase gets thicker. The oil vapor is actually made up of the lighter chemical additives the oil needs. The best oils use the most expensive additives which resist boiling away. That’s the lower NOACK value. Engines with high fuel dilution don't notice the oil becoming sludge, because fuel dilutes the oil. This makes the mess in your crankcase even worse. The result is the iron you see in the oil test. To be clear, this is what flattens the camshafts and stretches the timing chain. You can change the oil frequently, or make a YouTube video complaining about the manufacturer. In order to make an oil with low NOACK, it takes real quality. A low NOACK value is a major indicator of a good oil.
Viscosity Index (IV): This number tells you how well the oil maintains & stays within its stated viscosity. The higher the number the better the oil. Real good oil’s have a VI of 170 to 180. The best I've seen is 245, & that's the special 300V for the Honda Moto GP replica. This oil is $60 per quart. Assuming motorcycles are ridden in warm weather, you want oil with a higher viscosity to protect the engine. Most high performance motorcycles need 10W/60, or 15W/50. If you ride in hot weather over 90F, 20W/60 is a good choice. Motorcycles are compact with small radiators & oil coolers. The engines don't hold much oil, & they're often surrounded by a fairing that traps the heat. 0w/30 oils are for maximum horse power when racing. They are not meant for long engine life.
High Temperature High Sheer (HTHS): This is the film strength oil the oil. The EPA mandated fuel efficient oils have a HTHS of 2.8. The higher the HTHS, the better the oil. Good oils have a HTHS above 5. The best I've seen is Red Line 20W/60 Power Sports, 6.8. Viscosity plays a major roll in increasing the HTHS.
Zinc (ZDDP): Zinc slowly builds up the metal surfaces in your engine. Zinc is the last line of defense when things get really hot & the rest of the lubrication has been lost. Zinc prevents micro welding of the metal surfaces. Obviously you can get an engine so hot the metal galls itself together & the engine locks up. The thicker the zinc barrier, the more stress the engine can withstand. This is why it's important to lay down a good layer of zinc in a new engine as quickly as you can. Break-in oils have very high levels of zinc to do just that. Practically no new engines come with high zinc Break-in oil from the factory. The EPA says zinc in the oil contaminates the catalytic converter & reduces its ability to reduce emissions. I understand the principal, but I've never seen high zinc oils contaminate the catalyst. Even if it did, I would much rather deal with a bad catalytic converter than a bad crankshaft. The EPA oils have about 800ppm of zinc. The best high performance oils have over twice as much zinc. If you can find the oil's zinc content, it will tell you if you have an oil that protects the engine or the emissions system. Never add zinc to your oil. It upsets the chemical balance. Buy oil already made with high zinc.
Ester: Ester is a man made chemical type of oil. Ester synthetic oils are not based off of conventional petroleum oil that's pumped out of the ground. Man made ester chemicals can withstand much higher temperatures before the molecules brake apart. Ester also flows at extremely cold temperatures. Ester does one other really cool thing. Ester chemicals are attracted to metal. They don't completely drain off the metal surfaces when you shut the engine off. The next time you start the engine, there's a thin coating of oil on all the internal parts. This means less wear over the life of the engine.
Flash point: This is the temperature the oil vaporizes. If the engine has a turbocharger, they get very hot when you shut the engine off. The turbo's can get red hot when climbing a mountain in hot weather. If you shut the engine off at the end of your record breaking run up Pike's Peak, the oil in the turbo can vaporize. Obviously the higher the Flash Point, the better the oil. The highest I've seen is 245C.
You're never going to find the highest values in one oil. It's always a compromise.
One last thing I haven't talked about. Traditional Marvel Mystery oil (MMO) in your fuel. Most people use pump gas. It has 10% ethanol. Ethanol attracts moisture from the ambient air. When you let your bike set with fuel in the tank, moisture will eventually damage your fuel pump & the other metal parts in the fuel system. MMO in the fuel also lubricates & protects the injectors. MMO is high detergent & helps keep the varnish cleaned off the fuel system.
Super Magnets on a metal oil filter, or epoxied on the cover of a cartridge oil filter. Super magnets are an easy way to remove the iron powder that's smaller than the oil filter can trap. If you stuck a super magnet somewhere on the oil filter, the 17ppm iron in the 300V test would go to zero.
Another thing I should mention. There are a number of excellent ester motorcycle oils. If you live in Europe, I would definitely consider them. Putoline has a wide range of motorcycle oils. Their 10w/60 “Off Road Ester Tech 4+” is equal to Red Line or Maxima. Their 5W/50 “SPR+” is version of the Ducati special race oil. Another oil is Mannol “4-Takt Powerbike” 15w/50. Another is Millers “CFS 10w/60 NT+”. Another oil is Wolf “Moto 4T 20w/50 Racing Ester”. These oils are to expensive to ship to America. But for you guys in Europe, these are excellent choices.
Hi, I'm going to change the oil in my Streetfighter V4S and I want to use MILLERS OILS CSF 10W-60 NT+, unfortunately it doesn't say anything about a wet clutch - will it be suitable?
 
Hi, I'm going to change the oil in my Streetfighter V4S and I want to use MILLERS OILS CSF 10W-60 NT+, unfortunately it doesn't say anything about a wet clutch - will it be suitable?
They have specific wet clutch motorcycle oils, so email them and ask. If you can run it, have it analyzed later. Then the analysis can be added to the list here. It's beginning to seem running most anything other than redline is not a good idea on these but maybe Miller's will work too. This is one of the most valuable discussions/data on the forum IMHO. If this leads to fewer failures perfect.
 
Yes, this is a very useful discussion. I have the oil ready at home, but to be sure, I wrote to Millers oils technical support whether it is suitable for wet clutches. I would not like the clutch to slip on the first track day. The specification looks good. It is freezing here now, but as soon as it is time to ride, I will try to have an analysis done.
 

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