V4 owners - 15w50 oil reports with testing - Motul 300v / Redline Power Sports / Motul 7100 - Part 1

Ducati Forum

Help Support Ducati Forum:

baggerman said:
All steel. All thrust is taken by the ball bearings. I don't think it's coming from the gearbox.
Click to expand...


I posted this in this thread a while ago , notable member on Ducati Reddit sub , not sure if he is on here as well. But he breaks it down pretty much exactly how you mentioned as well.

".
Finally the aluminum.... there aren't many places where aluminum makes any contact with moving parts. The valve train may have some side contact on the rockers, but it's not under load. The entire transmission is on roller bearings. Pistons have antifriction coating on the skirts. Wrist pins don't move much and have an oil jet pointed at them. Up to 2021 the starter sprag gear ran on a bushing, and they went to a bearing after that, but I haven't seen that fail without an assembly issue. Basically there are the cam journals and the oil pump that contact rotating metal and aluminum. If you had a problem with your cam journal or your oil pump, trust me it wouldn't come up in parts per million on an oil sample. (I've taken one apart that had a plugged oil passage, and another that someone didn't torque the pressure plate bolts on, both motors were destroyed in mere minutes)

Ducati makes dirty motors

Unless you see shavings, it's probably normal."
 
NYCV4S said:
I posted this in this thread a while ago , notable member on Ducati Reddit sub , not sure if he is on here as well. But he breaks it down pretty much exactly how you mentioned as well.

".
Finally the aluminum.... there aren't many places where aluminum makes any contact with moving parts. The valve train may have some side contact on the rockers, but it's not under load. The entire transmission is on roller bearings. Pistons have antifriction coating on the skirts. Wrist pins don't move much and have an oil jet pointed at them. Up to 2021 the starter sprag gear ran on a bushing, and they went to a bearing after that, but I haven't seen that fail without an assembly issue. Basically there are the cam journals and the oil pump that contact rotating metal and aluminum. If you had a problem with your cam journal or your oil pump, trust me it wouldn't come up in parts per million on an oil sample. (I've taken one apart that had a plugged oil passage, and another that someone didn't torque the pressure plate bolts on, both motors were destroyed in mere minutes)

Ducati makes dirty motors

Unless you see shavings, it's probably normal."
Click to expand...

We need this guy here!!
 
SirJAG said:
So my piston is wearing?
Click to expand...
narrowed down to cam journals , pistons or oil pump based on that reddit post . but those PPM numbers not much to worry about regards to what he is saying. Try to run less of the peak rpm zone and see if that translates to less wear ( common sense it most certainly should) but its worth a shot. If something serious was going on it would be alot worse im sure , but a downward trend in wear metals is always a good thing.

you by any chance aren't running a sprint filter as well right? Those let a ton of debris in the airbox.
 
Last edited:
NYCV4S said:
narrowed down to pistons or oil pump based on that reddit post . but those PPM numbers not much to worry about regards to what he is saying. Try to run less of the peak rpm zone and see if that translates to less wear ( common sense it most certainly should) but its worth a shot. If something serious was going on it would be alot worse im sure , but a downward trend in wear metals is always a good thing.

you by any chance aren't running a sprint filter as well right? Those let a ton of debris in the airbox.
Click to expand...
Switched to BMC. The spirit one let SO MUCH debris through. Only my first sample with blackstone (300v @ 600ish miles) showed higher silicone…
 
NYCV4S said:
narrowed down to pistons or oil pump based on that reddit post . but those PPM numbers not much to worry about regards to what he is saying. Try to run less of the peak rpm zone and see if that translates to less wear ( common sense it most certainly should) but its worth a shot. If something serious was going on it would be alot worse im sure , but a downward trend in wear metals is always a good thing.

you by any chance aren't running a sprint filter as well right? Those let a ton of debris in the airbox.
Click to expand...
The only other place is where the rockers run against the bosses in the heads. I have the heads apart and see no wear. That being said there are 8 rocker to boss interfaces on the closing rockers and 16 on the openers. There is some side load on the closers due to the closer springs. These faces would burnish in a bit during break-in first few thousand miles.
 
NYCV4S said:
narrowed down to cam journals , pistons or oil pump based on that reddit post . but those PPM numbers not much to worry about regards to what he is saying. Try to run less of the peak rpm zone and see if that translates to less wear ( common sense it most certainly should) but its worth a shot. If something serious was going on it would be alot worse im sure , but a downward trend in wear metals is always a good thing.

you by any chance aren't running a sprint filter as well right? Those let a ton of debris in the airbox.
Click to expand...
Oil pumps don't wear much except when crap is pumped thru them.
 
baggerman said:
Oil pumps don't wear much except when crap is pumped thru them.
Click to expand...

i would assume the same.

based on you having the motor apart and the post from reddit i added above , we can at least now narrow down aluminum metal on metal parts to Cam & rocker journals , pistons , oil pump gear.

I would assume this would be from the heads and cams then i would think. alot of forces going on in the heads. pistons alone having wear is unusual since the rings take the abuse or unless the skirt coating is gone. Most all new v4 models i see high aluminum and high copper in the reports. If we can get an exact list of what the metal sources are and eliminate the break in miles , this would be great info to observe in trends of each oil sample over time. Going to see if i can email ducati directly for some additional info.
 
NYCV4S said:
i would assume the same.

based on you having the motor apart and the post from reddit i added above , we can at least now narrow down aluminum metal on metal parts to Cam & rocker journals , pistons , oil pump gear.

I would assume this would be from the heads and cams then i would think. alot of forces going on in the heads. pistons alone having wear is unusual since the rings take the abuse or unless the skirt coating is gone. Most all new v4 models i see high aluminum and high copper in the reports. If we can get an exact list of what the metal sources are and eliminate the break in miles , this would be great info to observe in trends of each oil sample over time. Going to see if i can email ducati directly for some additional info.
Click to expand...
My mind is old and feeble. The cams run directly on the aluminum journal faces in the heads. I actually have a front head (I bought it for the exhaust valves) with a slightly rashed journal at the camdrive sprocket. This will be the major source of aluminum I think. This is driven I think for 3 reasons. The feed hole on the front head has no rotational feed, comes in directly at the point of force. That journal is narrower than on the rear head. But most important I think is when the motors are new the force being applied by the cam tensioner spring is higher than in the rest of the motors life. Fresh chain. When I reassemble I will put a 1.5 mm crush washer under the tensioner assembly to lower the initial load on the journal face until the first desmo. Then I'll remove it (them). I have had that motor apart for far too long. Can't believe I forgot this. The clowncar at 10kish when I reshimmed it didn't show any issues though. It may be also rpm related when the motors fairly fresh. On of the first things I did when I bought the bike was to turn the rev limiter down to 13,500. I don't need the over rev. The power peaks at 13,250. The motor i'm building will use bigger throttle bodies and will peak higher. I'm hoping to pick the peak up by 500 rpm.
 
baggerman said:
My mind is old and feeble. The cams run directly on the aluminum journal faces in the heads. I actually have a front head (I bought it for the exhaust valves) with a slightly rashed journal at the camdrive sprocket. This will be the major source of aluminum I think. This is driven I think for 3 reasons. The feed hole on the front head has no rotational feed, comes in directly at the point of force. That journal is narrower than on the rear head. But most important I think is when the motors are new the force being applied by the cam tensioner spring is higher than in the rest of the motors life. Fresh chain. When I reassemble I will put a 1.5 mm crush washer under the tensioner assembly to lower the initial load on the journal face until the first desmo. Then I'll remove it (them). I have had that motor apart for far too long. Can't believe I forgot this. The clowncar at 10kish when I reshimmed it didn't show any issues though. It may be also rpm related when the motors fairly fresh. On of the first things I did when I bought the bike was to turn the rev limiter down to 13,500. I don't need the over rev. The power peaks at 13,250. The motor i'm building will use bigger throttle bodies and will peak higher. I'm hoping to pick the peak up by 500 rpm.
Click to expand...

Good to know . You think this is something over time will show diminishing wear levels until broken in or something that will always have lash and wear ?
 
NYCV4S said:
Good to know . You think this is something over time will show diminishing wear levels until broken in or something that will always have lash and wear ?
Click to expand...
It's marginal lubrication. The oil feed is jetted on its way to the to the camdrive journal. I have notes as to sizes someplace. I'm going up one drill size on the jet on the front head. The change to the overall oil flow is insignificant. This increases flow and pressure at the journal. I don't think the rear head needs this. The oil feed proceeds load by something like 30 degrees and since the size of the journal highest loaded area is larger (and has no hole in the middle) It'll probably be ok.
 
@baggerman @NYCV4S

Gentlemen. Just so I’m following along correctly and using this 1199 motor I have on my workbench. The ware you guys are talking about is the cams rotating and scoring here…..
 

Attachments

  • IMG_4065.jpeg
    IMG_4065.jpeg
    1.8 MB
SirJAG said:
@baggerman @NYCV4S

Gentlemen. Just so I’m following along correctly and using this 1199 motor I have on my workbench. The ware you guys are talking about is the cams rotating and scoring here…..
Click to expand...
has to be the source of aluminum , it should level out as more miles come about. Maybe in your case the guy before you didnt ride as aggressive as you have and your still breaking it in , how many total miles do you have now?
 
SirJAG said:
6500. Purchase at 4200ish
Click to expand...
should be for sure broken in @ that millage by now. It for sure looks to be an under lubricated location for metal to metal contact, especially on cold starts as oil needs to flow there first before lubrication ( not sure what the v4 motors looks like) also depending on how tight tolerances are from factory , i wouldn't worry much about it. Just monitor those levels on changes as your doing and try to dial back peak RPM for a 1000 miles or so , see if anything changes. This is exactly why your now using an elevated ZDDP oil with ester base to protect these areas. Just keep an eye on the trends here on out.
 
Last edited:
NYCV4S said:
has to be the source of aluminum , it should level out as more miles come about. Maybe in your case the guy before you didnt ride as aggressive as you have and your still breaking it in , how many total miles do you have now?
Click to expand...
If they were only as wide on the V4's. More concentrated force at the drive pulley. I've owned and worked on friends testaretta's and have never seen that problem. The face of the V4 journal was blackened.
 

Similar threads

M
Ducati PANIGALE Oil Change Kit: MOTUL 300V 10W-40 or 15W-50 Oil & K&N Filter
Replies
0
Views
2K
moto
M
M
Ducati Oil Change Kit: MOTUL 300V Factory Synthetic Oil [4 Liter] & Oil Filter
Replies
0
Views
974
moto
M
M
Ducati Oil Change Kit: MOTUL 300V Factory Synthetic Oil [4 Liter] & Oil Filter
Replies
2
Views
1K
moto
M
M
Ducati Oil Change Kit: MOTUL 300V Factory Synthetic Oil [4 Liter] & Oil Filter
Replies
0
Views
1K
moto
M
M
Ducati Oil Change Kit: MOTUL 300V Factory Synthetic Oil & Panigal Oil Filter Kit
Replies
0
Views
690
moto
M

Register CTA

Register on Ducati Forum! This sidebar will go away, and you will see fewer ads.

Recent Discussions

Back
Top