Very Puzzling Moto GP Decision

Got an email from my friend, owner of BST Terry Annecke, who informed me of this crazy decision made for 2013 in Moto GP:

Effective Immediately:
Carbon Composite wheels are not permitted.

motogp.com · GP Commission announcement on 2013 & 2014 rules

I wonder what caused this to be made and the rationale behind it. Anyone have intel on this? Surely it cannot be a safety issue as there were not any incidents involving carbon wheel failure last year.

This puts a hurting on her company I am sure, but as they say the race will go on! Incidentally, I asked her to please come up with another model / look for the BST Carbon wheels for the 1199 series since that may take off with many of us over the old style.

i gotta think it's safety... no Gunny?

Dunno

nyandy said:

i gotta think it's safety... no Gunny?

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I just sent Terry an email reply asking if she would give me some insight on this BS. First thought would be safety but I seriously dont recall any incident which would cause this drastic move!

Will post her reply once obtained. I am sure they spoke at some point since BST is the biggest supplier there is on carbon wheels. It isnt like they are unfair to anyone on race times, etc. Everyone has (or HAD) the ability to use them on their bikes.

Gunny Fitz said:

I just sent Terry an email reply asking if she would give me some insight on this BS. First thought would be safety but I seriously dont recall any incident which would cause this drastic move!

Will post her reply once obtained. I am sure they spoke at some point since BST is the biggest supplier there is on carbon wheels. It isnt like they are unfair to anyone on race times, etc. Everyone has (or HAD) the ability to use them on their bikes.

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10-4. i can't see such unsprung savings being discarded. possibly freaking out over potential lawsuits over failure? this is interesting for sure.

I don't get it either. The first things that come to mind are safety and cost. But I really don't see either being an issue.

Gunny Fitz said:

Surely it cannot be a safety issue as there were not any incidents involving carbon wheel failure last year.

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Was anyone in GP actually using carbon wheels last year???

Gunny Fitz said:

Got an email from my friend, owner of BST Terry Annecke, who informed me of this crazy decision made for 2013 in Moto GP:

Effective Immediately:
Carbon Composite wheels are not permitted.

motogp.com · GP Commission announcement on 2013 & 2014 rules

I wonder what caused this to be made and the rationale behind it. Anyone have intel on this? Surely it cannot be a safety issue as there were not any incidents involving carbon wheel failure last year.

This puts a hurting on her company I am sure, but as they say the race will go on! Incidentally, I asked her to please come up with another model / look for the BST Carbon wheels for the 1199 series since that may take off with many of us over the old style.

Click to expand...

Not surprised, it was already banned from a handful of tracks/events. A quick search found this:
Blackstone Tec Carbon Fiber wheels...worth the money? - Speedzilla Motorcycle Message Forums

And this (a good compare) mentions it is hard to detect damage following an incident:
Type Wheel Weight Result*

Weight:
Cast 6.00 lbs. 0
Forged Magnesium 4.74 lbs. -20%
Carbon Fiber 3.86 lbs. -35%

Radial Stiffness:
Cast 6.00 lbs. 0
Forged Magnesium 4.74 lbs. 0
Carbon Fiber 3.86 lbs. -3%

Moment of Inertia:
Cast 6.00 lbs. 0
Forged Magnesium 4.74 lbs. +20%
Carbon Fiber 3.86 lbs. +29%

Torisional Stiffness (bending):
Cast 6.00 lbs. 0
Forged Magnesium 4.74 lbs. +5%
Carbon Fiber 3.86 lbs. 0

Moment of Inertia:
Cast 6.00 lbs. 0
Forged Magnesium 4.74 lbs. +3%
Carbon Fiber 3.86 lbs. -4%

Cast: As you can see the cast wheel offers a lot of performance and value in the areas of weight and mechanical performance.

Forged: The forged magnesium wheel is lighter and offers more stiffness. The rim is also a little lighter which reduces dynamic weight and adds to the overall performance.. The forged wheel because it is completely machined also runs very true which improves the performance of the wheel.

Carbon Fiber: The carbon fiber is the lightest of the three and is stiffer in most areas. It is also the most expensive and can only be used in certain race classes. It is also difficult to test carbon fiber after an accident has been experienced to make sure the wheel is safe to reuse. Carbon Fiber should be used in specific applications by experienced riders who will take the extra care that is necessary.However, carbon fiber offers high performance and will appeal to the rider who wants the maximum performance in a wheel technology and is not concerned about cost or extra maintenance.

Trauma said:

Not surprised, it was already banned from a handful of tracks/events. A quick search found this:
Blackstone Tec Carbon Fiber wheels...worth the money? - Speedzilla Motorcycle Message Forums........

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For every defective CF wheel there are a ton more that are perfectly fine. I don't have any stats but I would think their fail rate is extremely low? IMO, not any different than any other wheel. I quick Google search for "magnesium wheel failures" returned a bunch of hits as well.

Its like the assault weapons ban, low hangng fruit. They know they can ban CF wheels without shutting down the entrire racing industry. Just stupid.

The front wheel mentioned in the speedzilla thread didn't appear to cause the wreck it appeared to be damaged as a result of the wreck.

The bst wheels are DOT approved in the US for road use, so I don't personally have reservations about the safety, too many out there in use both on track and street and far too few reports of failures.
Wondering, as they say whenever you're in a wreck or even drop a helmet to have it xrayed, I should think that'd be a good idea with the cf wheels as surely the fractures will show on an xray. I work at a hospital so no prob for me, too bad I can't affor the wheels tho!

MOTO GP under dorna has been doing lots of wierd things, who can say what the reason is.

I honestly don't think any of the GP bikes ran them, but I believe some of the CRT bikes may have.

Moto 2 did it to control cost I believe it's for the same reason

8. Wheel dimensions are fixed, 3.75” x 17” front and 6.00” x 17” rear. Composite construction wheels (eg carbon fibre reinforced) and carbon brakes are banned. Both rules help control costs.

Regulations | Moto2

ScrapperX said:

Moto 2 did it to control cost I believe it's for the same reason

8. Wheel dimensions are fixed, 3.75" x 17" front and 6.00" x 17" rear. Composite construction wheels (eg carbon fibre reinforced) and carbon brakes are banned. Both rules help control costs.

Regulations | Moto2

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Dang - I really wanted Carbon brakes, I guess I won't be racing in the GP this year

You can afford them Zvez. I'll take care of you on a set if its really something you want?

thanks Gunny, but saving my pennies for the mts1200 gt I've got on order!

Gunny Fitz said:

You can afford them Zvez. I'll take care of you on a set if its really something you want?

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unless the carbon fiber wheels look like either of these i have no interest. oh and they must be gloss finish of course.

lower cost, limit speed?

not very effective in my opinion.

want to lower cost and limit speed, spec ECU, get rid of DTC.

isn't brembo and Marchesini from the same owners? or am i mistaken?

grtz

Koen

According to Motowheels there was not anyone using carbon wheels in Moto GP, and this change will not make any difference. Guess I cried wolf here, sorry gents.

I can"t see cost being an issue. A set of BST wheels are about the same price as a set of high end Brembo calipers which everyone uses. Could it possibly be a concern of heat transfer from brake discs to the wheel itself? I dont know if this may cause any issues. Any body on here a bit more technically au fait on what i"m talking about? I"m sure a metal wheel could withstand repeated heat cycles better than a plastic one