Warranty denied by Harley because of flags

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lol Well, as an engineer that used to design Harley transmissions, I completely side with Harley on this one (and not in any way out of loyalty). 2 fLags that size are the equivalent of towing a good sized trailer in terms of drag, and is simply not a load case that the powertrain is designed for. There are torque requirements fed to the engineers based on the driving cycle and sorry, but fLag drag is not one of them :)

I'm not sure why this is even news... Kind of a common sense thing to me. If you try to tow your camper with a Honda Fit don't blame the OEM if your tranny breaks... it's your fault for overstressing it.
 
transdesigner said:
lol Well, as an engineer that used to design Harley transmissions, I completely side with Harley on this one (and not in any way out of loyalty). 2 fLags that size are the equivalent of towing a good sized trailer in terms of drag, and is simply not a load case that the powertrain is designed for. There are torque requirements fed to the engineers based on the driving cycle and sorry, but fLag drag is not one of them :)
Click to expand...

Minor point here.

In order for Harley to state that the drag coefficient from those flags exceeds design parameters, they'd first have to model the drag coefficient - unless they're just making it up.
Would like to see the numbers they came up with to justify their position. ;)
 
Charliem90 said:
Minor point here.

In order for Harley to state that the drag coefficient from those flags exceeds design parameters, they'd first have to model the drag coefficient - unless they're just making it up.
Would like to see the numbers they came up with to justify their position. ;)
Click to expand...

I agree, but you could actually find the CoD easily enough by putting a force gauge on the flag mount and driving down the highway.

In some ways almost any added highway drag above what a couple of people cause is "non-standard" on a motorcycle. It can potentially be worse than added weight too, because the effect of aero drag goes up exponentially with speed.
 
transdesigner said:
I agree, but you could actually find the CoD easily enough by putting a force gauge on the flag mount and driving down the highway.

In some ways almost any added highway drag above what a couple of people cause is "non-standard" on a motorcycle. It can potentially be worse than added weight too, because the effect of aero drag goes up exponentially with speed.
Click to expand...

I can see why you don't do work for Harley anymore.

"Did that new engineer read the requirements?? He should know we want it as heavy and non-aerodynamic as possible while also simultaneously achieving lowest in class horsepower ratings. Don't get me started on his lack of exploring what can and can't be effectively chromed either."
 
Capt CF said:
I can see why you don't do work for Harley anymore.

"Did that new engineer read the requirements?? He should know we want it as heavy and non-aerodynamic as possible while also simultaneously achieving lowest in class horsepower ratings. Don't get me started on his lack of exploring what can and can't be effectively chromed either."
Click to expand...

LMAO

Well, in my defense, I didn't officially work for Harley, I worked for a company that designed and built stuff for them. Did a few interesting projects like their Buell race bike applications too. Most of my motorcycle trans design experience was for these guys:
Baker Drivetrain | The Drivetrain Authority

Worked on a lot of stuff for them, including the DD6, but this puppy was my baby:
torquebox | Baker Drivetrain
(notice how shiny it was... Harley guys love that... lol)
Did this bad boy too:
KKK: King Kong Klutch | Baker Drivetrain
 
transdesigner said:
LMAO

Well, in my defense, I didn't officially work for Harley, I worked for a company that designed and built stuff for them. Did a few interesting projects like their Buell race bike applications too. Most of my motorcycle trans design experience was for these guys:
Baker Drivetrain | The Drivetrain Authority

Worked on a lot of stuff for them, including the DD6, but this puppy was my baby:
torquebox | Baker Drivetrain
(notice how shiny it was... Harley guys love that... lol)
Did this bad boy too:
KKK: King Kong Klutch | Baker Drivetrain
Click to expand...

Very cool sutff. I'd recommend their marketing dept. take a look at using a different acronym on that last product though....
 
TricoloreSF said:
Very cool sutff. I'd recommend their marketing dept. take a look at using a different acronym on that last product though....
Click to expand...

Yeah it's supposed to be a joke but honestly I find it a bit offensive too and wished they picked something else. What's worse is they spelled clutch with a K on purpose to make the joke work... but just try and ignore that and focus the coolness of the product...
 
My ..."¦.Read all the words of the article"¦Where it speaks about the part not being a HD flag mount"¦.BUT THEY MAKE A FLAG MOUNT !

Premium American Flag Kit-61400074 | Decorative & Protective Accents | Official Harley-Davidson Online Store

So"¦.since no where on their website does it say I can't put 50 of them on, for the states honor, and the aggregate drag equals that guy's two big flags"¦.does he have a case"¦

They MAKE flag mounts !"¦WTF

It would have cost them less to just fix his transmission than all the bad press.

NOLA
 
After reading that link I'm still going to have to side with Harley on this one, the flag they sell is only 14"x11" and they state: "Flags are designed for parade use only and will not withstand high-speed use ". Not only were this guy's flags I'd guess over 3.5' by the picture, but there are 2 of them, and I'm pretty sure that in the 15k miles he did a lot of that was highway use. That's like faulting an OEM when you tried to pull a yaht with a 4cyl jeep because they had a commercial of it pulling a jet ski, and it's just a "bigger boat".

I guess my other point is related to the joke earlier about Harley never changing anything or advancing... which at the same time means that while there may be occasional oil leaks or electrical issues, something like a clutch is probably something they've gotten to the point that it's probably user error more than a design flaw (unless this was actually some "new" clutch design of theirs).
 
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transdesigner said:
I guess my other point is related to the joke earlier about Harley never changing anything or advancing... which at the same time means that while there may be occasional oil leaks or electrical issues, something like a clutch is probably something they've gotten to the point that it's probably user error more than a design flaw (unless this was actually some "new" clutch design of theirs).
Click to expand...

I think the rest was good natured ribbing on our part. I have friends with Harleys and I pretty much haven't met a bike I didn't like. The flag guy put over a million miles on one of his bikes. The day Ducati can build a bike that can even do 2k miles without leaking oil out of every orifice will be the day that we can talk. Until then, his mileage record speaks for itself and for HD.
 

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