What element of Ducati do you like the most?

All true.

Sometimes things change. On flying cars, yes, they exist not just in industrial parks. Flying commercial taxis, in the US, we'll see. You guys are just guessing. But those are good points about the US. They'll be in Dubai and wherever else way before the US prolly. Just like self-driving taxis. The US is ruled by Insurance & petrol companies these days.

"still the tell tale signs are there of investor dollars being spent on luxury homes and vehicles." hu? What are you talking about? JoeBen started 3 companies and sold them each for over $30million, all super legit businesses, the last one he sold grew to a $300mil annual revenue 2 years after. He lives in Santa Cruz mts. in the same converted barn he's had since 2008. I spent a lot of 3:AM work sessions with him and a lot of other guys working our ..... off. Your story is not this story.

LOL this is America let’s have this same conversation a year from now when we can more accurately follow the bouncing investment ball. Embezzlement and fraud are hallmarks of American startups. I predict while burning through this round of capital they will continue to solicit investment dollars and there will be an IPO. Additionally, I did not specifically state JoeBen was guilty of any wrongdoing. Let’s see what happens.
I’ve been in aviation 30 years. I think what Joby is doing as far as an aerial platform is awesome. I think JoeBen is an innovator and capable of building a successful commercial version of his vision. The difference is if they are raising capital to build aircraft based on selling aircraft for general aviation (like Cirrus)or are they raising capital based on the Uber in the sky model. Sky Uber isn’t going to happen so in that case, based on quite a bit of history those investors will never see a return and without the “Uber” lure, how much capital would they have raised?

The IPO is already announced.
If you listen to his vision it is really pretty amazing. It's not 'let's make unicorns.'
Uber is indentured servitude as a business model. It's really crap for the drivers.
This platform moves more people over the same distance many times faster with the same total operating cost. That's what it so amazing even beyond the aviation innovation.
He explains the math clearly, 'pilots will get paid a much higher wage, passengers will pay the same and get from A to B faster, no local CO2 emissions, no petro-dollar jokes or auto-industry jokes.' The auto-industry joke is that the total cost of operating is higher than the profits as cars are made to run 2% of the time and sit 98% of the time, then fall apart exactly when the warranty is up. Ubers are running 98% of the time in some markets so the cars only last 2 years. The cost of replacing the Uber fleet world wide is in multiples of what the company will ever make. Going full electric away from planned-obsolescence makes it profitable for everyone. Then, flying. Not bad.
Then some ass-hat will buy the company and starvation wage the pilots.
There's a song about that.

endodoc said:

LOL this is America let’s have this same conversation a year from now when we can more accurately follow the bouncing investment ball. Embezzlement and fraud are hallmarks of American startups. I predict while burning through this round of capital they will continue to solicit investment dollars and there will be an IPO. Additionally, I did not specifically state JoeBen was guilty of any wrongdoing. Let’s see what happens.
I’ve been in aviation 30 years. I think what Joby is doing as far as an aerial platform is awesome. I think JoeBen is an innovator and capable of building a successful commercial version of his vision. The difference is if they are raising capital to build aircraft based on selling aircraft for general aviation (like Cirrus)or are they raising capital based on the Uber in the sky model. Sky Uber isn’t going to happen so in that case, based on quite a bit of history those investors will never see a return and without the “Uber” lure, how much capital would they have raised?

Click to expand...

IPO means nothing until the service is FAA certified and approved and some method is devised to control all of them in the national airspace. You simply can’t turn lose thousands of small aircraft in a urban setting with no way to track or monitor them or communicate. ATC controllers are busy enough with other flight operations already. Will these aircraft, they are not cars, have IFF transponders? Radar altimeters? TCAS? Plus I doubt an insurance underwriter will sell a policy to them. What happens when one crashes, and they will crash, and kills a person or persons on the ground? What happens when an idiot pilot, aka Kobys pilot, takes off in bad weather? Are these things VFR rules only?? Lots of questions….lots

Ummm i love my Ducati

This is a new thread now hahah - ya all big questions. Lots of architects, city planners, aviation people, military etc all over the world all running planning on this for over a decade as it's a little bit inevitable. Ground traffic has hit its fking maximum miserable density.
The current theory is a decentralized intelligence in an "Unmanaged-airspace" regulated by altitude and flight paths for package deliveries, other altitudes etc. for short hop aerial vehicles. You can find this stuff googling smart-city-of-the-future stuff, but this is a Ducati forum.
If you've flown into Singapore recently or Beijing or Hong Kong or... you start to notice the best of the US is starting to look like "stuck in 1978," for all those reasons you mentioned. Salute your local Insurance & Petrol company. Meanwhile the IPO will go and they'll be flying in other countries.

yogurtyui said:

I would love to hear more!

Click to expand...

I was saying, making a $12,000,000. motorcycle go 300kph is hard, but a different kind of hard. Putting any complex machinery into "production" at a competitive price in a dense market is really really 'effing hard and full of compromises that anyone would have to make to meet standards and regulations in many different countries. So I give them that. Hats off. Really I really admire Ducati for different reasons. That said, some of the industrial design I find difficult to excuse. The 3D puzzle that is the fairing design on the V4 gets my, "wtf were you thinking," award. The tiny fittings that have no theme direction and break off "unless you magically know how it works;" the yoga that you have to do to check the oil level, the retarded part that covers the coolant reservoir that's doubles as an IQ / patience test, instead of making a door, duh..., the bizarre style-decision-instead-of-ergonomics = body/moto conflicts while riding. The manual that, instead of giving an answer says, "visit your Ducati dealer," has to be the most infuriating thing ever printed second only to "communism will save us." That's just the outside. I noticed they solved some of the ergonomics on the 2021 GP bikes. Why don't we get that? 2022?
Take a step back and it's the most gorgeous bike there is for me, hands down.
The ride is spiritual.
Sometimes I wake up in the morning all excited and I run downstairs to look at her.

Solved some of the ergonomics?

2021 GP bike: There is a curved space where the pilots knees go instead of the flat thing my knees rest on that shouldn't be there that covers empty space. Dito for the ability to turn the bars to their extremes without hands smashing on plastic that covers empty space. (significance "empty space," it doesn't need to be that shape.)
Not sure how that design fix would change the blissful aerodynamics of the V4. I think not very much. I can't see a reason for it outside of style or possible future additions planned that will go under there. But I'm really stretching to find an excuse. It's just not as good as it could be. #easytobecritic #designishard

That's a great shape


Conflicts "X" body bangs into.
The "wtf" thing I point at - The cost of the tool to make that insanely complex piece of plastic is way up there. I can't understand why they'd do that. That's like a million in cost brain-fart for something stylish and weird. Unless I'm totally missing the point of its existsance? Anyone? Wtf is that thing, why is it there?
Air flow control? They talk about that with other bikes moving hot air away from rider... Not sure about it.
Feet have other things going on, not as bad, The heel rests... more personal.
The wings are a bit stuck on like an after thought. They should be integrated better.
They're still a little wishy-washy about their existence.
I want commitments .......!

craig bush said:

Solved some of the ergonomics?

Click to expand...

Ah yes - totally agreed. I’ve been wondering why they integrated the side fairing with the fast tank cover too - wtf??

They "fixed" the design for their WSBK fairings. I guess they were uneasy about exposing that much of the frame. I feel like things were likely designed without that connection first, then some marketing guy went, "But we don't want to show too much of the new frame because people don't like how it isn't trellis!"

+1 prolly That. ugh.

MaverickiB said:

They "fixed" the design for their WSBK fairings. I guess they were uneasy about exposing that much of the frame. I feel like things were likely designed without that connection first, then some marketing guy went, "But we don't want to show too much of the new frame because people don't like how it isn't trellis!"

Click to expand...

Be interested to see what this actually looks like painted and installed.

Who's is that? Is that one of the tamburini trellis frames? Looked interesting, but after seeing the god awful welds on the swingarms and other stuff they make, I'm not sure how much I'd trust it.

endodoc said:

Be interested to see what this actually looks like painted and installed.

Click to expand...

Your design?

That's valid. The welding is not so hot from an aesthetic perspective. I'm not qualified to speak on it structurally. Hey Craig, no sir not mine, Tamburini.

Would be neat to see if it feels any different. I wonder what the weight difference is.

I think its posted. its probably somewhat comparable but it looks cool. Wonder what the difference in feedback would be ride wise

Vbreeze said:

View attachment 37810
Not to get too sidetracked, however, I beg to differed having hauled those f'ing motors back and forth from california to china more times than I care to remember.
You can learn all about them here:
https://www.jobyaviation.com/It will be piloted in commercial taxi service, however it can fly unpiloted. Production prototypes are running since 2019, way beyond prototypes.
150+ miles on a single charge, @ 200 mph. We made the lightest most powerful electric motors in the world and reinvented the propeller to meet FAA city sound requirements. Many X quieter than a helicopter so they can vertical-take-off and land in city centers.
Awkward genius founder explains how awesome the project is after deal with Toyota was sealed for several hundred million, later second partnerships sealed - current evaluation is in unicorn land, going public soon on the NYSE. So ya, pretty real.
https://www.jobyaviation.com/news/a...and-ceo-joeben-bevirt-founder-and-ceo-joeben/Joby just bought Uber's flying taxi wing this year as well. It's going pretty fast now after 10 years.
This was one of the early drone prototypes in Santa Cruz, 2009:
Google bought that for package deliveries. It was originally going to be high altitude wind energy, but it was problematic, very political and got squashed by investor wavering.

Click to expand...

That's a helicopter, not a car.