10X Health
- Thread starter endodoc
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No no I'd love to hear an explanation of how this revolutionary therapy that's in plain sight but no major pharmaceutical company or reputable healthcare provider offers it
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I didn't see the Ducati pie chart for fatalities.
2020 saw 91,799 drug involved OD deaths. A touch higher than 5,579 motorcycle fatalities for the same year. 32% of that 5,579 figure were alcohol-impaired. It's a safe bet to say don't be drunk riding at night and your motorcycle fatality risk is greatly reduced.
Speaking of ODs...the same people that gave opioids away like they were Skittles. I wouldn't hitch my wagon to that horse.
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Sure, we’ll for one, pharmaceutical companies develop and sell drugs to the masses. Drugs that after prescription and be used by the end user without invasive intervention. Not the case with IV not to mention that the market would be so small, big pharma wouldn’t even look at it.
Two, healthcare does not specialize in prevention. Very few people involve traditional healthcare in preventative scenarios.
I would suggest giving something a try before dismissing it. If it yields results, great if not you can converse on your opinion but to just come in and claim quackery really paints you into a wall with regard to fundamental hypothesis and calculated opinion.
Notice that everything I post about is accompanied by photos of me actually doing what I’m posting on? It’s called credibility dude. With rare exception if I don’t have actual experience with something, I stay out of it. I haven’t done NAD IV so I’m not commenting on it. I do use HBOT daily and it is amazing.
Two, healthcare does not specialize in prevention. Very few people involve traditional healthcare in preventative scenarios.
I would suggest giving something a try before dismissing it. If it yields results, great if not you can converse on your opinion but to just come in and claim quackery really paints you into a wall with regard to fundamental hypothesis and calculated opinion.
Notice that everything I post about is accompanied by photos of me actually doing what I’m posting on? It’s called credibility dude. With rare exception if I don’t have actual experience with something, I stay out of it. I haven’t done NAD IV so I’m not commenting on it. I do use HBOT daily and it is amazing.
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So you're telling me you fully understand this topic?
You know what it's Christmas and I'm feeling helpful. Someone please explain this review below in layman's terms especially NAD metabolism and how exogenous NAD influences endogenous NAD production.
I mean if you provide NAD intravenously so there's an excess extracellular, won't that tell cells that make NAD naturally to stop making NAD intracellular and now you're in a negative feedback loop and a deficit?
I'd also love Steven's thoughts on this figure
You know what it's Christmas and I'm feeling helpful. Someone please explain this review below in layman's terms especially NAD metabolism and how exogenous NAD influences endogenous NAD production.
I mean if you provide NAD intravenously so there's an excess extracellular, won't that tell cells that make NAD naturally to stop making NAD intracellular and now you're in a negative feedback loop and a deficit?
I'd also love Steven's thoughts on this figure
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Weird looking wiring diagram
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As ridiculous as the FDA is it may have been better if NAD wasn’t a naturally occurring substance thereby making it unregulated by the FDA, which means the neutracueticals industry got ahold of it and did their thing marketing it, so it’s hard to separate out from the rest of the chaff in that industry.
But the thing is, most pop music is ...., auto tuned dancers that can’t sing….but then there’s Adele, and Dolly Parton, pop music, but singers that can sing.
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I believe they're squiggles and worms that are in your cells. P2X is the gene that makes you high 5.
Oral bioavailability of NAD+ is relatively poor hence, the IV. Unlike many negative feedback loops such as the hormone biosynthetic pathway not every biochemical process succumbs to down regulation. In many cases excess is tightly modulated by enzymatic action and disposed of. I’d have to do some reading on it to comment further.
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I found a place that delivers subcutaneous injections, much easier to administer than an IV. Useful because frequency and consistency of dosing seems important. Long term administration easier subcue.
You guys talk a lot of ...., but Ill have to admit its very handy having Endo around since he's an expert on pretty much everything but my question is this just more of his I am richerer and cleverer than you shtick
Show me the independent studies in human trials and not modified mice that show tangible benefits from NAD therapy and I am not fussy btw - pill, IV or up the ass lol
Show me the independent studies in human trials and not modified mice that show tangible benefits from NAD therapy and I am not fussy btw - pill, IV or up the ass lol
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It’s called Elonitis. It happens when you’re a post-midlife crisis rich white guy w too much money and think you know more than everyone else. Maybe one day, if you’re lucky, you’ll get it.
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How do you even know that you’re getting this holy-grail NAD solution? They could literally be giving you saline and you’d be none the wiser.
But I’d bet placebo effect is stronger than the actual NAD effect
NAD is overblown at best, its crystal therapy for tech bros
www.npr.org
Addiction Clinics Market Unproven Infusion Treatments To Desperate Patients
Some addiction treatment clinics offer IV infusions of a mix of supplements — including something known as NAD. The treatment isn't proven to work and is not FDA-approved for addiction.
www.npr.org
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I’ve never seen him do an “I’m richer and cleverer schtik”, in fact I may be to blame for that perception because if I hadn’t outed him on being a self made guy who did it with an amazing amount of cunning you guys would never had known that about him, because he’s certainly never said anything like that here. So I probably owe him an apology for your post lol.
Having said that, the guys who are richer and cleverer usually don’t say so, they don’t have to, because other people who know them do it for them…other people impressed by them sing their praises so-to-speak…and well, that’s kinda what happened here haha
Probably doesn’t help that he’s got very little time or patience for stupidity though, but fucksake that’s like everybody else here
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NAD is overblown at best, its crystal therapy for tech bros
Addiction Clinics Market Unproven Infusion Treatments To Desperate Patients
Some addiction treatment clinics offer IV infusions of a mix of supplements — including something known as NAD. The treatment isn't proven to work and is not FDA-approved for addiction.
Well, the problem with dramatically extending lifespans is potential over population, from too many people being alive at once…guess thought process’s like this alleviate some of that concern
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There are degree’s of cynicism through which we navigate life, that governs much of our decision making process…mine appears to be significantly lower than yours lol
This is not about Endo, its about evidence and the science behind some pretty extraordinary claims.
I think this is a giant red flag though
To add a few minutes of research on 10X healthsystems and someone has done a bit of work already to get an idea of the roosters we are dealing with
I make this post in an effort to both vent and learn more about a new fad in quackery that seems to be making a push for more market share in the US. I have some questions about particular points I came across in a video online.
This pertains to 10X Health System which seems to be one of these "hack your health" systems that markets directly to wealthy individuals in the public. With a recent endorsement by UFC president, medical doctor-skeptic, and ivermectin-fan Dana White (which I suspect is part of a larger marketing push), I thought it might be interesting to look at some of this a little more closely and see if the r/medicine community can help me parse what on earth they are trying to claim and sell here. If nothing else, I will be better informed when it inevitably gets brought up by bro-science peddling relatives over the holidays.
Please lend me your aid.
Some things stood out to me in the marketing material in the above video as well as what I found on the 10X website and in looking up one of the co-founders, Gary Brecka.
(1) V-Shaped WBC Profile
While discussing White's CBC, Brecka makes the mystifying claim that the basophil, eosinophil, neutrophil, etc. breakdown on White's lab results after 5 months of the 10 X program: "line up in a perfect V shaped pattern ... this means that his immune system ... is like an iron horse". Brecka seems to be describing something about the breakdown of leukocytes but what, exactly, he is getting at remains opaque to me.
Have any of you heard of a 'V' shape to the WBC breakdown in conversation with your alternative-medicine using patients? Obviously it smacks of nonsense but what even *is* this claim? I attempted to search for anything online that might speak to this but the algorithm and my search terms failed me.
(2) Triglyceride Level and Emergency Lab Alerts
After briefly touching on improvements in BUN and Creatinine (which, frankly, doesn't mean much for an expensive health system since simple hydration can improve these numbers), Brecka points to White's triglyceride level of 764 mg/dL before treatment, stating that this triggered a "life threatening alert call from LabCorp at 1:30 in the morning because that number was so high".
Setting aside that improvements in the lipid profile would be expected with standard interventions like diet and exercise, the mention of a 1:30 AM phone-call seems like a bald faced, totally unnecessary lie. Can anyone attest to the LabCorp policy for middle-of-the-night alert calls for lipid panel abnormalities?
(3) Homocysteine and Throat Swelling
At one point in the video, Brecka states that homocysteine can cause throat swelling and that it can also cause hypertension. He points to a pre-treatment level that is barely moderately elevated and mentions that intervention reduced this into the normal range.
Again, basic diet, exercise, and nutritional supplementation can lower homocysteine levels. Set aside for a moment that homocysteine-lowering therapies do not have an established track record of reducing cardiovascular complications like MI (maybe stroke, but I digress).
What on Earth is Brecka talking about when he says homocysteine causes throat swelling? To make matters worse, White himself interjects at this point in the video to mention that CPAP machines don't work and links his improvement in Obstructive Sleep Apnea to homocysteine lowering therapy. No mention of the fact that basic weight loss is the explanation behind his resolved OSA.
(4) The Importance of Communication
A sad reflection I had on watching this video was just how poor medical communication must have been to Dana White over the years. In order for him to feel like Brecka is offering some remarkable, noteworthy solution to his problems, his physicians must have failed to impart any of these basic lessons about diet, exercise, etc. in the past.
"How about this, I had doctors doing my blood every few months... they didn't even tell me that!" -- referring here to his triglyceride levels or HbA1c.
I'm not in a rush to pity a billionaire who demonizes healthcare and tried to re-open public sporting events without adequate safety measures during the height of the pandemic -- but the fact remains that people are often taken in by charlatans when the field is left fallow by our more traditional approach to medicine. The gap or vacuum left behind is fertile ground for snake oil salespeople to fill in the gap. And the poor sucker (in this case, Dana White) is left believing that doctors are only out to suck money out of people and keep them sick.
A positive spin would be: Something as mundane as talking to someone about their pre-diabetes is immensely important and can be the difference between someone being taken in by some pseudoscience spiel or not.
(5) MTHF Gene Mutations
A gene test is available through the 10X Health Systems website. They say:
*"*44% of the world’s population has a genetic mutation that makes it challenging for them to create enough of the 5-MTHF gene…
In layman’s terms… it’s hard for your body to work properly. This methylation cycle is a process the human body goes through that takes a raw nutrient from its “non-usable” form and converts it into something your body can actually use. This cycle is vital to detoxification, repair damage, energy, hormones and overall keeping your immune and nervous systems in proper working order…
But it’s not just about this 1 gene, there’s 5 main genes that you could have a mutation".
I found no concrete information. It is unclear to me what, if anything, they are gaining by assessing for polymorphisms in 5-methyltetrahydrofolate reductase (I presume this is what they are referring to when they mention a MTHF "gene"). I suspect they end up recommending an alternative folic acid supplement (which I'm sure they sell for a premium) even though evidence suggests people with gene variants of 5-MTHFR can still process folic acid.
Does anyone have any insights into why (if ever) one would use an alternative folic acid supplement? Or what one could learn about the MTHF gene that would influence care (aside from an increased risk of methotrexate toxicity)?
(6) Testing Insulin Levels
Brecka takes some pains to explain the various roles of insulin in the body then brings up White's insulin levels. Please tell me -- has there ever been a role for testing actual insulin levels in health (aside from unexplained hypoglycemia)?
(7) Myers' Cocktail and Osmolality
In a video available at the bottom of his own website, Brecka breaks down his IV therapy which is also listed on the 10X site. He touts improved immune function, help "detoxify those organs", and hydration.
If we set aside for one second that a bottle of water will also hydrate someone, and that he is basically selling people what many of you will know as a "banana bag" or as "Pabrinex" depending on your side of the Atlantic... Set that aside for a moment and reflect on his bass-ackwards, confused understanding of how fluid leaves the intravascular compartment and enters the tissue.
He emphasizes that the vitamins are delivered in a saline solution and that this is so that the fluid will leave the vessels and enter the tissue, and that the "toxins" will then leave the tissue and enter the vessels to be "flushed" from the system.
His abject misinformation when it comes to osmolality and fluid shifts is shockingly in its ignorance. But it sounds good to a gullible audience and, as such, has a home on Instagram.
(8) Gary Brecka himself
The company seems to have a man called Gary Brecka as their "chief human biologist". Brecka boasts a bachelors degree in biology from Frostburg State University as well as the National College of Chiropractic. That seems to be it, in terms of education.
So who the heck is this guy? The "realest guy that I've ever met in the medical field" according to Dana White. He's obviously promoting some sensible things like weight loss, diet, and exercise. His website has a short little video of him at a local supermarket talking up the importance of free range eggs, warning people about the low smoke point of olive oil in cooking, the value of berrys -- things like that. So far, so agreeable.
But then he's also selling products from $5000 to $130,000 on the basis of ... basically nothing, as far as I can tell. He's producing videos which bash established medical treatments (like CPAP for OSA) and scare monger to the public (at one stage, Dana White makes fun of people who would doubt this panacea and tells them to "stick with your doctor and good luck to you!" and Brecka snickers -- tacitly endorsing the message that people should doubt the care they get from their doctors and instead jump on the 10X Health Systems bandwagon).
Can we learn anything else about this guy?
Brecka's previous work involved using mortality prediction models to predict life expectancy for insurance companies. More specifically, he was the co-founder and CEO of Life Asset Group, LLC, a company that deals in the secondary life insurance market. What's the secondary life insurance market? Why, it is simply the "purchase [of] existing insurance policies at a discount to face value" for the eventual realization of "a profit when the insured dies and they can collect the death benefit of the policy." These are bundled and sold as multi-million dollar packages to institutional investors.
Somewhat interestingly, Brecka's name also comes up in court documents as a defendant in a 2011 case brought by Concord Capital Management (InsCap Management), in which a default judgement of almost $1 million was brought against Brecka.
He is also mentioned, tangentially, in a separate case in which a particular bank (Fifth Third Bank) brought a case against one Matthew Ross, a former bank employee. The bank alleged that this employee had colluded with InsCap Management and created fraudulent documentation used to secure premium financing loans funded by the Bank, and funding advances for life insurance policies that were never purchased. The bank's complaint against Ross also specified that he had concealed from the Bank the close affiliation between InsCap and Life Asset Group’s owner, Gary Brecka.
I'm not a lawyer, nor have I plumbed the depths of these legal cases to understand the extent of Brecka's involvement. The picture, however, is not one that fills me with confidence that Brecka's lifelong ambition has truly been the public good. Nevertheless, perhaps becoming disenchanted with the legal quagmires involved in attempting to sell life insurance policies on a secondary market for profit, Gary Brecka has since re-branded himself as a "bio hacker" and "functional medicine specialist". Life Asset Group is listed as "Inactive" on the Florida "Division of Corporations" website. By 2018, Brecka was writing articles on melatonin, sleep, vitamin D, and sunlight on LinkedIn as CEO of Streamline Medical Group. The streamlinemedicalgroup.com website now re-directs to 10X Health Systems.
***
So that's it. Apologies for the uninvited rant and thank you if you stuck with me thus far. I needed to exorcise some of this.
That's what I've learned in an afternoon of looking things up after coming across the ridiculous promotional video from Brecka and White. White repeatedly ridicules the idea that he is being scammed or participating in a scam and his exclamations are so lacking in basic self-awareness, it is almost embarrassing. As if people *choose* to be scammed.
Brecka is selling the most basic of health maintenance advice as though it is revolutionary or distinct from standard medical care and he is using those basic fundamentals as a vehicle that a whole host of expensive snake oil can piggy-back on top of to make money from gullible people with money.
And as far as I am concerned, Dana White is either completely taken in by this, likely bamboozled by some fancy sounding blood work and hooked by the sprinkling of facts thrown in, or he's benefitting financially from this endorsement, or both.
I think this is a giant red flag though
To add a few minutes of research on 10X healthsystems and someone has done a bit of work already to get an idea of the roosters we are dealing with
Gary Brecka, 10X Health System, and a Dana White Endorsement
I make this post in an effort to both vent and learn more about a new fad in quackery that seems to be making a push for more market share in the US. I have some questions about particular points I came across in a video online.
This pertains to 10X Health System which seems to be one of these "hack your health" systems that markets directly to wealthy individuals in the public. With a recent endorsement by UFC president, medical doctor-skeptic, and ivermectin-fan Dana White (which I suspect is part of a larger marketing push), I thought it might be interesting to look at some of this a little more closely and see if the r/medicine community can help me parse what on earth they are trying to claim and sell here. If nothing else, I will be better informed when it inevitably gets brought up by bro-science peddling relatives over the holidays.
Please lend me your aid.
Some things stood out to me in the marketing material in the above video as well as what I found on the 10X website and in looking up one of the co-founders, Gary Brecka.
(1) V-Shaped WBC Profile
While discussing White's CBC, Brecka makes the mystifying claim that the basophil, eosinophil, neutrophil, etc. breakdown on White's lab results after 5 months of the 10 X program: "line up in a perfect V shaped pattern ... this means that his immune system ... is like an iron horse". Brecka seems to be describing something about the breakdown of leukocytes but what, exactly, he is getting at remains opaque to me.
Have any of you heard of a 'V' shape to the WBC breakdown in conversation with your alternative-medicine using patients? Obviously it smacks of nonsense but what even *is* this claim? I attempted to search for anything online that might speak to this but the algorithm and my search terms failed me.
(2) Triglyceride Level and Emergency Lab Alerts
After briefly touching on improvements in BUN and Creatinine (which, frankly, doesn't mean much for an expensive health system since simple hydration can improve these numbers), Brecka points to White's triglyceride level of 764 mg/dL before treatment, stating that this triggered a "life threatening alert call from LabCorp at 1:30 in the morning because that number was so high".
Setting aside that improvements in the lipid profile would be expected with standard interventions like diet and exercise, the mention of a 1:30 AM phone-call seems like a bald faced, totally unnecessary lie. Can anyone attest to the LabCorp policy for middle-of-the-night alert calls for lipid panel abnormalities?
(3) Homocysteine and Throat Swelling
At one point in the video, Brecka states that homocysteine can cause throat swelling and that it can also cause hypertension. He points to a pre-treatment level that is barely moderately elevated and mentions that intervention reduced this into the normal range.
Again, basic diet, exercise, and nutritional supplementation can lower homocysteine levels. Set aside for a moment that homocysteine-lowering therapies do not have an established track record of reducing cardiovascular complications like MI (maybe stroke, but I digress).
What on Earth is Brecka talking about when he says homocysteine causes throat swelling? To make matters worse, White himself interjects at this point in the video to mention that CPAP machines don't work and links his improvement in Obstructive Sleep Apnea to homocysteine lowering therapy. No mention of the fact that basic weight loss is the explanation behind his resolved OSA.
(4) The Importance of Communication
A sad reflection I had on watching this video was just how poor medical communication must have been to Dana White over the years. In order for him to feel like Brecka is offering some remarkable, noteworthy solution to his problems, his physicians must have failed to impart any of these basic lessons about diet, exercise, etc. in the past.
"How about this, I had doctors doing my blood every few months... they didn't even tell me that!" -- referring here to his triglyceride levels or HbA1c.
I'm not in a rush to pity a billionaire who demonizes healthcare and tried to re-open public sporting events without adequate safety measures during the height of the pandemic -- but the fact remains that people are often taken in by charlatans when the field is left fallow by our more traditional approach to medicine. The gap or vacuum left behind is fertile ground for snake oil salespeople to fill in the gap. And the poor sucker (in this case, Dana White) is left believing that doctors are only out to suck money out of people and keep them sick.
A positive spin would be: Something as mundane as talking to someone about their pre-diabetes is immensely important and can be the difference between someone being taken in by some pseudoscience spiel or not.
(5) MTHF Gene Mutations
A gene test is available through the 10X Health Systems website. They say:
*"*44% of the world’s population has a genetic mutation that makes it challenging for them to create enough of the 5-MTHF gene…
In layman’s terms… it’s hard for your body to work properly. This methylation cycle is a process the human body goes through that takes a raw nutrient from its “non-usable” form and converts it into something your body can actually use. This cycle is vital to detoxification, repair damage, energy, hormones and overall keeping your immune and nervous systems in proper working order…
But it’s not just about this 1 gene, there’s 5 main genes that you could have a mutation".
I found no concrete information. It is unclear to me what, if anything, they are gaining by assessing for polymorphisms in 5-methyltetrahydrofolate reductase (I presume this is what they are referring to when they mention a MTHF "gene"). I suspect they end up recommending an alternative folic acid supplement (which I'm sure they sell for a premium) even though evidence suggests people with gene variants of 5-MTHFR can still process folic acid.
Does anyone have any insights into why (if ever) one would use an alternative folic acid supplement? Or what one could learn about the MTHF gene that would influence care (aside from an increased risk of methotrexate toxicity)?
(6) Testing Insulin Levels
Brecka takes some pains to explain the various roles of insulin in the body then brings up White's insulin levels. Please tell me -- has there ever been a role for testing actual insulin levels in health (aside from unexplained hypoglycemia)?
(7) Myers' Cocktail and Osmolality
In a video available at the bottom of his own website, Brecka breaks down his IV therapy which is also listed on the 10X site. He touts improved immune function, help "detoxify those organs", and hydration.
If we set aside for one second that a bottle of water will also hydrate someone, and that he is basically selling people what many of you will know as a "banana bag" or as "Pabrinex" depending on your side of the Atlantic... Set that aside for a moment and reflect on his bass-ackwards, confused understanding of how fluid leaves the intravascular compartment and enters the tissue.
He emphasizes that the vitamins are delivered in a saline solution and that this is so that the fluid will leave the vessels and enter the tissue, and that the "toxins" will then leave the tissue and enter the vessels to be "flushed" from the system.
His abject misinformation when it comes to osmolality and fluid shifts is shockingly in its ignorance. But it sounds good to a gullible audience and, as such, has a home on Instagram.
(8) Gary Brecka himself
The company seems to have a man called Gary Brecka as their "chief human biologist". Brecka boasts a bachelors degree in biology from Frostburg State University as well as the National College of Chiropractic. That seems to be it, in terms of education.
So who the heck is this guy? The "realest guy that I've ever met in the medical field" according to Dana White. He's obviously promoting some sensible things like weight loss, diet, and exercise. His website has a short little video of him at a local supermarket talking up the importance of free range eggs, warning people about the low smoke point of olive oil in cooking, the value of berrys -- things like that. So far, so agreeable.
But then he's also selling products from $5000 to $130,000 on the basis of ... basically nothing, as far as I can tell. He's producing videos which bash established medical treatments (like CPAP for OSA) and scare monger to the public (at one stage, Dana White makes fun of people who would doubt this panacea and tells them to "stick with your doctor and good luck to you!" and Brecka snickers -- tacitly endorsing the message that people should doubt the care they get from their doctors and instead jump on the 10X Health Systems bandwagon).
Can we learn anything else about this guy?
Brecka's previous work involved using mortality prediction models to predict life expectancy for insurance companies. More specifically, he was the co-founder and CEO of Life Asset Group, LLC, a company that deals in the secondary life insurance market. What's the secondary life insurance market? Why, it is simply the "purchase [of] existing insurance policies at a discount to face value" for the eventual realization of "a profit when the insured dies and they can collect the death benefit of the policy." These are bundled and sold as multi-million dollar packages to institutional investors.
Somewhat interestingly, Brecka's name also comes up in court documents as a defendant in a 2011 case brought by Concord Capital Management (InsCap Management), in which a default judgement of almost $1 million was brought against Brecka.
He is also mentioned, tangentially, in a separate case in which a particular bank (Fifth Third Bank) brought a case against one Matthew Ross, a former bank employee. The bank alleged that this employee had colluded with InsCap Management and created fraudulent documentation used to secure premium financing loans funded by the Bank, and funding advances for life insurance policies that were never purchased. The bank's complaint against Ross also specified that he had concealed from the Bank the close affiliation between InsCap and Life Asset Group’s owner, Gary Brecka.
I'm not a lawyer, nor have I plumbed the depths of these legal cases to understand the extent of Brecka's involvement. The picture, however, is not one that fills me with confidence that Brecka's lifelong ambition has truly been the public good. Nevertheless, perhaps becoming disenchanted with the legal quagmires involved in attempting to sell life insurance policies on a secondary market for profit, Gary Brecka has since re-branded himself as a "bio hacker" and "functional medicine specialist". Life Asset Group is listed as "Inactive" on the Florida "Division of Corporations" website. By 2018, Brecka was writing articles on melatonin, sleep, vitamin D, and sunlight on LinkedIn as CEO of Streamline Medical Group. The streamlinemedicalgroup.com website now re-directs to 10X Health Systems.
***
So that's it. Apologies for the uninvited rant and thank you if you stuck with me thus far. I needed to exorcise some of this.
That's what I've learned in an afternoon of looking things up after coming across the ridiculous promotional video from Brecka and White. White repeatedly ridicules the idea that he is being scammed or participating in a scam and his exclamations are so lacking in basic self-awareness, it is almost embarrassing. As if people *choose* to be scammed.
Brecka is selling the most basic of health maintenance advice as though it is revolutionary or distinct from standard medical care and he is using those basic fundamentals as a vehicle that a whole host of expensive snake oil can piggy-back on top of to make money from gullible people with money.
And as far as I am concerned, Dana White is either completely taken in by this, likely bamboozled by some fancy sounding blood work and hooked by the sprinkling of facts thrown in, or he's benefitting financially from this endorsement, or both.
Last edited:
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When someone is sharing things that are helpful that should be a positive thing and unless you have direct experience contrary it's best not to comment.
This forum is supposed to be people helping eachother and Endo has personally helped me a ton in the past.
Merry Christmas
to all
This forum is supposed to be people helping eachother and Endo has personally helped me a ton in the past.
Merry Christmas
to all
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Since we’re all giving each other ........ over here, I’m feeling left out hahahahaha This post has taken a turn to the nuthouse eh eh
And to all a good night!
And to all a good night!
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