1199 vs 899 You decide....

I know that Hayden Gillim is Nicky Hayden's cousin, and a professional road racer. But I wonder if he's ever raced and/or ridden extensively on liter bikes. His background seems to be mainly in super sport machines, which on the face of it might skew the results towards the more supersport-like 899. Did he try riding a gear lower on the 1199? How many laps did he get to do on each machine. I wasn't there so I wonder.

Although MCN came to a similar conclusion and they are certainly used to testing all types of bikes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cJ2d5YO7m4&sns=em

Another interesting 899 comparison. Listen to Neevsey's comments at 6:10.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQza_TWj8JM&sns=em

I'll take poseur status for $500, Alex, and stick with the 1199 that sounds meaner and has prettier electronics/widgets.

Track layout has a lot to do with it to. Nowhere for a liter bike to stretch it's legs at the streets.

"hard-core, track-oriented riding positions". Is it really that "hard-core"? Compared with what, a Gold-wing? lol

"the lighter, more agile 899"? Did they add weight to the 1199 because their scales disagree with Ducati's figures.

It seems that they have established that it takes more skill and finesse to unleash the extreme power of the 1199 on a tight, twisty track, go figure.

I'm more than happy with my 1199. Even if I was in the market for a new bike today, I'd still get the 1199. Its so much more visceral and exciting. And as its been said many other times in other threads, its the violent, terrifyingly monstrous acceleration that puts the smile on my face. It is just so special and every time I ride, I get the excitement of the very first time I rode a motorcycle. The 899 doesn't move me the way the 1199 does.

I've said it before.

But I don't think Jesus Christ himself could ride an 1199 faster than an 899 on the street or on a tight track.

All litre superbikes need plenty of room to flex their muscles to be at their best.
I do wonder though, what the final numbers and the outcome would've looked like, had the 1199 been geared down at the back end
Maybe a bit closer I think.

Brad said:

I've said it before.

But I don't think Jesus Christ himself could ride an 1199 faster than an 899 on the street or on a tight track.
.

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Dude rode a donkey once and it got him nailed to a cross. Can we choose a different pilot?

I was much faster in the canyons on my 1199 then the 848, I wonder if I could catch myself on a 899.


I don't think I could. I use 1rst 2nd and 3rd for 99% of the canyons and as soon as your in 3rd Ill have a edge over the smaller bike.

I don't think its a big difference, not as big as how far I would be ahead of the 848 anyway.

outhouse said:

Dude rode a donkey once and it got him nailed to a cross. Can we choose a different pilot?

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Riding a donkey didn't get the man nailed to a cross

You can choose any pilot you like
It still doesn't change the laws of physics.

If I find the right used 899, I'll be all over it. I only ride the track and only on the east coast where the tracks are tight. All are around 2 miles. Having a 1199s with full termi showed me that to much power can slow you down. I am MUCH faster on my 750 ... but l long for another Italian bike. 899 or F3 800 as the next bike. 899 with Mag wheels, Full Ti exhaust and a solid tune.... thats a bad bike.

People are forgetting that geometry is not static. The 1199's rake/trail/wheelbase can be probably adjusted to get into the 899's ballpark no?

Sprockets can be changed to make gearing shorter like the smaller bike. Maybe not 15/44 but you can definitely subtract/add teeth if you're going to ride on a track where 190MPH isn't a valuable asset.

I would also guess (and maybe this isn't the case) that wet mode throttle response can be reflashed by someone like Rexxer to match 140hi or 140lo from the 899.

Seems to me that with some relatively inexpensive wrenching (much of it the sort that might occur to prepare a bike for a particular track anyway) and a reflash you can get the 1199 into the 899's neighborhood but getting the 899 to work like an 1199 at CoTA for example, requires invasive engine work.

Am I off base here? I don't see how more flexible isn't better provided that you can afford it.

It's the old "less is more" okie doke , if your a hen peck husband that's what you buy your wife/girlfriend so she'll "let" you ride if she can tag along.

BTrain5489 said:

People are forgetting that geometry is not static. The 1199's rake/trail/wheelbase can be probably adjusted to get into the 899's ballpark no?

Sprockets can be changed to make gearing shorter like the smaller bike. Maybe not 15/44 but you can definitely subtract/add teeth if you're going to ride on a track where 190MPH isn't a valuable asset.

I would also guess (and maybe this isn't the case) that wet mode throttle response can be reflashed by someone like Rexxer to match 140hi or 140lo from the 899.

Seems to me that with some relatively inexpensive wrenching (much of it the sort that might occur to prepare a bike for a particular track anyway) and a reflash you can get the 1199 into the 899's neighborhood but getting the 899 to work like an 1199 at CoTA for example, requires invasive engine work.

Am I off base here? I don't see how more flexible isn't better provided that you can afford it.

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It's really not that simple. The 1199's geometry cannot be changed to match the 899 without significant modifications, the rake is not adjustable and the 1199 swingarm is longer. Gearing an 1199 shorter will make it even more wheelie prone, which is a big impediment to lap times on that bike on a shorter track. Tuning the power output down on the 1199 will not produce the same effect as the 899 since the bore and stroke are different, you would get a much different torque curve by tuning that engine to 148 HP to match the 899. It would be a softer/weaker motor then the 899. You also have more spinning mass inside the 1199 engine, and a larger rear tire, which both affect turning. I've been through this multiple times on Ducati track bikes swapping back and forth between a 749R, 1098, 848 (race), 1198S, 848, 1199 and now going to an 899. While you can't get the power output of the small bikes up to the level of the bigger bikes to be competitive on a long flowing track (Miller, Road America, Cota, etc.), you also can't do enough to make the bigger bike more manageable on the shorter tracks. That's just the nature of the beast, and why some tracks have a track record holder on a 600 or 750 rather than a liter bike.

My two home tracks are 2.2-2.3 mile 13/14 turn tracks, and on both of those tracks my 848 race bike was the fastest bike for me. The bigger bikes are more wheelie-prone and harder to get to hook up for a hard exit from slower turns. While they had a 10-15mph advantage on the straights, the smaller bikes would make it up on braking/turn-in and with higher exit speed. I'm looking forward to getting the 899 out there this year, hoping it will be a great combination of my old 848 race bike and the 1199, which was the 2nd fastest bike I've had around my home tracks (about .5 secs slower than the 848 race bike).

outhouse said:

Dude rode a donkey once and it got him nailed to a cross. Can we choose a different pilot?

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Stake actually, an X shape perhaps, but likely just a stake since he carried it. A cross was a pagan symbol back then and would absolutely not have been used. Just sayin

Anyway, back to topic, I've rode both and even had a deposit on an 1199S w/ABS. I decided to wait 2yrs for the 899 and I'm not disappointed. Just personal taste.

ladies and gentleman
WE HAVE A WINNER!!!!!
THE 899 IS THE BEST
NOW CAN SOMEBODY CALL DUCATI AND TELL THEM TO STOP RACING THE 1199 AND GET THE 899

lol I love this forum

You guys know that the 1199 has a wet & sport mode ? You don't have to be in race all the time... Wet mode is actually pretty fun... I haven't tried it at the track though... I wonder how different lap times would be ...

Realprop said:

You guys know that the 1199 has a wet & sport mode ? You don't have to be in race all the time... Wet mode is actually pretty fun... I haven't tried it at the track though... I wonder how different lap times would be ...

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I ran the 1199 in Wet mode many times on the track, going all-out it was about 5 seconds a lap slower than Race mode. So not like it was dog slow, it was still pretty quick, but you lose the strong drive coming off the turns and quite a bit of top speed. Also if you don't adjust the DTC level down, it will kick in instantly and constantly the entire 2nd half the turn as soon as you touch the throttle. I ran in Wet mode a lot of the time when I was riding with guys on 848's and 600's, it was a lot of fun because I was actually a little under-powered compared to those so I had to work harder in the turns!

I thought the article was pretty fair, though it was a bit fluffy. I would have liked to hear some subjective comparison comments from Gillim about the two and to see some corroborating data traces from the VBOX. Seeing exactly where the bikes differed would have been very interesting I think.

They favored the 1199 for the street and said it would have beaten the 899 at Big Willow, but for trackdays and tighter courses, the smaller bike was the better choice. No real surprise there to me. Way back in my motocross days 125's often had faster lap times than the 500's, and even on the 4-strokes now the 250's are sometimes quicker than the 500's. Even the 0-60 time didn't surprise me considering that everyone has said the 1199 is hard to launch since it wants to wheelie over on you. Without launch control, getting the 899 launched is going to be easier than the 1199.

It was easy for me; as a street rider who was looking for a bike with the size, weight and agility of my 675 Daytona, the V-Twin groove of my RC51, and the punch of my Fireblade all rolled into one, there really was only one choice...

Steve B said:

I thought the article was pretty fair, though it was a bit fluffy. I would have liked to hear some subjective comparison comments from Gillim about the two and to see some corroborating data traces from the VBOX. Seeing exactly where the bikes differed would have been very interesting I think.

They favored the 1199 for the street and said it would have beaten the 899 at Big Willow, but for trackdays and tighter courses, the smaller bike was the better choice. No real surprise there to me. Way back in my motocross days 125's often had faster lap times than the 500's, and even on the 4-strokes now the 250's are sometimes quicker than the 500's. Even the 0-60 time didn't surprise me considering that everyone has said the 1199 is hard to launch since it wants to wheelie over on you. Without launch control, getting the 899 launched is going to be easier than the 1199.

It was easy for me; as a street rider who was looking for a bike with the size, weight and agility of my 675 Daytona, the V-Twin groove of my RC51, and the punch of my Fireblade all rolled into one, there really was only one choice...

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I have mentioned that same thing about the 250s and 450s a few times. I dont think there is many MX guys though. I like how you came to your bike choice BTW