1199 vs 899 You decide....

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Steve B said:
I thought the article was pretty fair, though it was a bit fluffy. I would have liked to hear some subjective comparison comments from Gillim about the two and to see some corroborating data traces from the VBOX. Seeing exactly where the bikes differed would have been very interesting I think.

They favored the 1199 for the street and said it would have beaten the 899 at Big Willow, but for trackdays and tighter courses, the smaller bike was the better choice. No real surprise there to me. Way back in my motocross days 125's often had faster lap times than the 500's, and even on the 4-strokes now the 250's are sometimes quicker than the 500's. Even the 0-60 time didn't surprise me considering that everyone has said the 1199 is hard to launch since it wants to wheelie over on you. Without launch control, getting the 899 launched is going to be easier than the 1199.

It was easy for me; as a street rider who was looking for a bike with the size, weight and agility of my 675 Daytona, the V-Twin groove of my RC51, and the punch of my Fireblade all rolled into one, there really was only one choice... ;)
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I totally agree:)
 
Don't know if you guys get any road-racing across in the States, but there are quite a few over here in UK/Ireland. These 'tracks' or 'courses' are fantastic where you can be at arms-length from the action. Most of them allow the big bikes to shine. Isle of Man TT races are a wet-dream for all type of bikers. Any bike you can think of (and a few more) is there. Fastest average lap is over 130 miles per hour for a 37.5 mile lap. That's through towns, villages, over hump-backed bridges, hairpin bends, etc. I've only been 5 times, but have met people that have been going every year since 1960's. Without a doubt, my favourite part is the mountain section where anyone can travel at any speed they want"¦legally! Outside the towns & villages the roads have been de-restricted whereby you can travel at any speed you like as long as it's in a "controlled manner!".
I suppose my point to this is that the bigger tracks suit the bigger bikes and the shorter, twister tracks suit the smaller bikes. They all have their place. Just enjoy your bike to the best of your ability"¦..or"¦..wring it's neck at every opportunity!!

Thanks for the great info on the 1199 & 899. Keep it up.
 
.... the lap times. There are plenty of lonely Texas backroads where I can run the bike wide open through the gears to.....well, very fast speeds and the 1199 is a thrill ride. Sure, I love the handling, but I'm not tracking the bike. If money was an object I'd buy a ZX10r over an 899.
 
92GTA said:
Stake actually, an X shape perhaps, but likely just a stake since he carried it. A cross was a pagan symbol back then and would absolutely not have been used. Just sayin :D

.
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Way off topic :eek:


But the consensus is a T shape not a cross, the stake,tree, X dont have much of a backing by scholars.

The romans used to impale victims through the groin leaving then out on a pole stuck in teh ground. Pretty grusome.



Want to argue this brother, catch me at these under the same user name. ;)
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92GTA, Outhouse is right. Despite common Jehovah doctrine, or Watch Tower references, it was a cross not a stake as is referenced a ton in the great book, and anatomical references to time duration prior to death of "X" versus horizontal bar.

Thread hijack complete.

Next ? Can we talk about guns for a little while :)

NOLA
 
Back on topic. I really want to do the DRE in megello and they use 899s now, so I figure if I do that, then I'd have a real assessment of the 899 compared to my R.

Hopefully now I will find dates that will work for me.
 
jarelj said:
It's really not that simple. The 1199's geometry cannot be changed to match the 899 without significant modifications, the rake is not adjustable and the 1199 swingarm is longer. Gearing an 1199 shorter will make it even more wheelie prone, which is a big impediment to lap times on that bike on a shorter track. Tuning the power output down on the 1199 will not produce the same effect as the 899 since the bore and stroke are different, you would get a much different torque curve by tuning that engine to 148 HP to match the 899. It would be a softer/weaker motor then the 899. You also have more spinning mass inside the 1199 engine, and a larger rear tire, which both affect turning. I've been through this multiple times on Ducati track bikes swapping back and forth between a 749R, 1098, 848 (race), 1198S, 848, 1199 and now going to an 899. While you can't get the power output of the small bikes up to the level of the bigger bikes to be competitive on a long flowing track (Miller, Road America, Cota, etc.), you also can't do enough to make the bigger bike more manageable on the shorter tracks. That's just the nature of the beast, and why some tracks have a track record holder on a 600 or 750 rather than a liter bike.

My two home tracks are 2.2-2.3 mile 13/14 turn tracks, and on both of those tracks my 848 race bike was the fastest bike for me. The bigger bikes are more wheelie-prone and harder to get to hook up for a hard exit from slower turns. While they had a 10-15mph advantage on the straights, the smaller bikes would make it up on braking/turn-in and with higher exit speed. I'm looking forward to getting the 899 out there this year, hoping it will be a great combination of my old 848 race bike and the 1199, which was the 2nd fastest bike I've had around my home tracks (about .5 secs slower than the 848 race bike).
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Very true.



I always thought it was because they "the smaller bikes" weighed less and were easier to flick around the tight tracks.


If that is true, then the 1199 has the best of both worlds. :p
 
outhouse said:
Very true.

I always thought it was because they "the smaller bikes" weighed less and were easier to flick around the tight tracks.

If that is true, then the 1199 has the best of both worlds. :p
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Light weight certainly helps a lot on any bike, especially unsprung spinning weight (wheels, rotors). Placement of weight matters too, if you can remove weight that is high up on the bike you'll feel that more, as well as weight distribution front/rear to get closer to 50/50.
 
jarelj said:
Light weight certainly helps a lot on any bike, especially unsprung spinning weight (wheels, rotors). Placement of weight matters too, if you can remove weight that is high up on the bike you'll feel that more, as well as weight distribution front/rear to get closer to 50/50.
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Agreed.


Always love the help you provide the community.
 
Duc1199 said:
I would have still purchased the 1199... But if I was on the market to covert a bike to a full blown track bike... Would go with the 899.
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I definitely wanted the literbike hammer, and to get it in a package as light as a 600 sealed it. You don't use the warp drive much, but it's nice to know it's there. ;)

Maybe blasphemous to say here, but if I were building a track-only bike I'd forget the 899 and round up something like a used 750 Gixxer. Would be cheap enough that I wouldn't cry if it got wadded up, and they are well-sorted, fast and easy to get proven bits for. Don't know if they did it on the same day (suspect they did), but when CW did their supermid comparo, Gillim went about a second quicker on the old school Gixxer than the 899 - well over 2 seconds a lap quicker than he went on the 1199.
 
Interesting but be good to see the same comparison on a better track - is Pukehoe the main track in NZ? Surprised about the braking though - my 19R brakes are amazing much better than my YZF600 Brembos - maybe pads on yours? Going to Philip Island next month which I have only ridden the 600 and Hayabusa on (dont laugh it was still bloody quick and turns as it been trimmed 29kg! and Fully Dynoed etc :) ) Will be intersting how it compares with the 600 with same rider etc (me) Thanks for sharing
 
Thanks.
Pads and front preload, I think, are the main issues with the braking.

Yeah, Pukekohe is the main one, and it forms a good comparison as it has both fast and slow bits. Pretty sad track for a "main" track, eh? :p
 
NOLA said:
92GTA, Outhouse is right. Despite common Jehovah doctrine, or Watch Tower references, it was a cross not a stake as is referenced a ton in the great book, and anatomical references to time duration prior to death of "X" versus horizontal bar.

Thread hijack complete.

Next ? Can we talk about guns for a little while :)

NOLA
Click to expand...
Lets talk guns.. My yamaha had a huge rear storage where I could actually put my fire arm and it would be legal. This ducati barely fits the tool bag they supply lol. Now i have to go get CWP just to have my firearm with me when riding.
 
I thought they knew it was lighter because their posted comparison weights show the 1199 is lighter. Maybe they screwed up and meant the 1199 is more agile too!:D
 

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