1299 standard or 1199s

Chaotic · Jun 20, 2015

ScrapperX said:
On my 1199 I can carry more corner speed than I did on my R6 because it is lighter and has a wider rear tire than my R6, and TC

Corner speed doesn't have anything to do with the weight of the bike. If we are talking about a Harley vs an R6, maybe. But an R6 and Panigale are very close in weight.

The wider rear tire on the 1199 doesn't have anything to do with it either.

And if you were carrying more corner speed on the 1199, then you were likely doing it wrong. A 600 and a 1000 will often apex (verb) the corner in a different spot to utilize their respective strengths. On a Liter bike, the goal is to get the thing in the corner as hard/fast as possible, get it stopped and pointed in the right direction, then upright and on the gas. You want to try and make the straightaways as long as possible (think "point and shoot").

For example, in GP racing the 250's will often carry as much as 10mph more corner speed than the MotoGP (1000cc) bikes. The 250's have to keep the momentum up, whereas the bigger bikes are trying to get in there, get it point and upright, and get on the gas.

Chaotic · Jun 20, 2015

fzr100098 said:
"Much better" would require back-to-back comparison with an expert rider. Ohlins snobs have yet to do this...it likely is better, "much better"? Doubt it

And of course YOU would say that. Ever since you got your base model you have made it a point to express how good your base is, how the S isn't much better, and things of that nature.

...or how people with an S (or parts that come on the S) are "snobs". It isn't about being a "snob". It is about the equipment being better.

And for your information, I HAVE done back to back comparison tests with the base forks then followed up with the 30mm Ohlins kit on the 675 (non-R), Kawi 636, several different Suzuki's, R1, R6 and a few other bikes...and yes, the Ohlins is much better, regardless of what you want to believe or how bad you need to believe your bike is just as good as an S.

wilkson · Jun 20, 2015

fzr100098 said:
"Much better" would require back-to-back comparison with an expert rider. Ohlins snobs have yet to do this...it likely is better, "much better"? Doubt it

I agree . I have never been one to back a brand just because of the reputation or the fact that's what most people are using . Most racers will use Ohlins because that's what they know and most tuners are proficient with Ohlins and lots of Data to be shared as well of spares .
All this considered it does not necessarily mean it's better more so it's got better support .

fzr100098 · Jun 20, 2015

Come on Chris, the base forks on the Jap bikes are junk, not sure what that has to do with the 1299

Never said the Base is as good as the S, either, but doubt most street riders would go any faster on it

Chaotic · Jun 20, 2015

fzr100098 said:
Come on Chris, the base forks on the Jap bikes are junk, not sure what that has to do with the 1299

Not necessarily.

I won multiple amateur races on the base forks on the 675 (non-R). They aren't as good as Ohlins, but they aren't necessarily junk.

But I felt like I was riding on the ragged edge. I had very little feel of the front end, didn't trust the bike under hard trail braking, etc. The Ohlins kit transformed the front end.

Again, like I said whether somebody needs Ohlins, or lightweight wheels, or an exhaust, or any other mod/part people can think of, that is a whole different discussion.

Chaotic · Jun 20, 2015

fzr100098 said:
Never said the Base is as good as the S, either, but doubt most street riders would go any faster on it

I didn't get this the first time because your edit came after my post.

But I actually agree with you. Few people will "outride" the components on the base model, especially on the street. On the street, I think the S is overkill and unnecessary. If mine was only going to be a street bike, I would have gotten the base, no doubt about it.

Now we are getting into the "is it needed" discussion, which is a totally different thing.

fzr100098 · Jun 20, 2015

Most of the members here who have tracked the Base recommend swapping the shock, but the fork is getting good reviews - possibly a revalve

jjsC6 · Jun 20, 2015

Chaotic said:
They made several changes to the 1299 to make it easier for the average rider to go faster on it. Going faster on the 1299 isn't just about the power or the electronics, it is also about chassis geometry.

I understand all of that. But as has been said, most riders aren't good enough for it to make a difference. When I was racing I trounced many riders who had far better bikes than I did. And on the street I have run off and hid from some guys on S1000RRs.....on my 1600 GT. And for the record, there were guys I raced against who were significantly better than I was.

Don't misunderstand me, I fully get your point. It will make a good rider better, and a top rider even better still. But the average rider, and by that I mean even the average sport bike rider, they are not riding fast enough for the nannies to even kick in.

outhouse · Jun 20, 2015

Chaotic said:
I think the S is overkill and unnecessary. .

We have some crappy roads on our canyons.

The better suspension makes al the difference and gives you the confidence you cannot get out of he cheaper counterparts.

On my 848 and the stock showas, they were a great shock, but switching to the ohlins on the 1199 was a dramatic upgrade that instantly advanced my skill level.

The worse the pavement the better the shock needs to be.

outhouse · Jun 20, 2015

jjsC6 said:
When I was racing I trounced many riders who had far better bikes than I did. .

Here the fastest guys are riding multistradas with slicks.

Real tight stuff below 100.

Skill usually trumps equipment.

I mean even the average sport bike rider, they are not riding fast enough for the nannies to even kick in.
Jun 20th 2015 06:26 AM

I probably fit in there somewhere. I like the upgrades and do notice.

But do agree .

Chaotic · Jun 20, 2015

jjsC6 said:
I understand all of that. But as has been said, most riders aren't good enough for it to make a difference. When I was racing I trounced many riders who had far better bikes than I did. And on the street I have run off and hid from some guys on S1000RRs.....on my 1600 GT. And for the record, there were guys I raced against who were significantly better than I was.

Don't misunderstand me, I fully get your point. It will make a good rider better, and a top rider even better still. But the average rider, and by that I mean even the average sport bike rider, they are not riding fast enough for the nannies to even kick in.

Agree 100%.

bradp51 · Jun 21, 2015

1299

And most mortals have enough with the 1199 , well me anyway

Chaotic · Jun 21, 2015

Either one will be fine and will bring you more than enough enjoyment.

The 1299 might be worth a little more in a few years. But other than that, just get whichever one you like better.

CaliRosso · Jun 22, 2015

If you need displacement and can't shift down on your own then get the base 1299.. if you want a better all round package wheels suspension etc then get the 1199S!

bp7178 · Jun 22, 2015

What's funny is that there is literally no information provided by the OP as to his/her riding style, be it track or street etc.

Someone makes a 23 word post and we get 4 pages of people arguing about it.

Internet.

990Glen · Jun 22, 2015

Its hard to say which is the most futile, the endless arguments about specs on this forum, or the number of people who are prepared to by a bike on the biased and rambling recommendations of the inmates.
What the hell happened to having the conviction to buy what "you" want instead of what everyone else tells you is best.

Its getting a little Groundhog Day on here lately.

fzr100098 · Jun 22, 2015

990Glen said:
Its getting a little Groundhog Day on here lately.

Go ride and don't worry about it - life is short, ultimately there are infinitely more important matters in life than the "latest and greatest" bike, car, jet ski etc

fzr100098 · Jun 23, 2015

bp7178 said:
Someone makes a 23 word post and we get 4 pages of people arguing about it.

Internet.

Internet debates are futile for the most part, the best thing to look for in any debate where scientific evidence is available but varying experiences is a consensus of experts (assuming you can discern who the "experts" really are)

Unfortunately we don't have track times for both bikes using a pool of expert riders, that would settle it. Which is better on the street is impossible to quantify but again the experts (literature) all agree the 1299 is significantly improved over the 1199 and is easier to ride fast

Chaotic · Jun 23, 2015

990Glen said:
Its hard to say which is the most futile, the endless arguments about specs on this forum, or the number of people who are prepared to by a bike on the biased and rambling recommendations of the inmates.
What the hell happened to having the conviction to buy what "you" want instead of what everyone else tells you is best.

Its getting a little Groundhog Day on here lately.

1. That is what these forums are for, discussions such as those. If they bother you, just hit that red X at the top right corner.

2. These bikes are new. There aren't many discussions on new model bikes that aren't mostly hypothetical and based on reviews or specs. The quality and variety of topics will expand once the bikes are a few years old.

I am a Moderator on Gixxer.com; when the all-new '06/'07 600/750 came out. ll of the topics were like these. Aside from the name, that forum looked just like this one when you scroll through thread titles. Fast forward 9 years later and that forum section is full of interesting threads, build projects, discussions on tons of aftermarket parts, review of racing careers, etc. It just takes time.

3. As far as the "Groundhog day" thing, there aren't THAT many parts on these bikes and they don't have THAT many uses.

If we eliminate topics based upon specs, exhausts, race bodywork, suspension, tires, oil brands/changes, chain and sprockets, wheels, horsepower and motor work, fuel type and mpg.....what is left? Of course you are going to see the same .... over and over, there isn't that much to talk about when it comes to sportbikes.

love2ride · Jun 29, 2015

bp7178 said:
What's funny is that there is literally no information provided by the OP as to his/her riding style, be it track or street etc.

Someone makes a 23 word post and we get 4 pages of people arguing about it.

Internet.

Look at post 12. OP wants the 1299.

1299 standard or 1199s

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