22' V4S - Exhaust & tune questions

misfit · Feb 6, 2022

While waiting for the new bike to arrive, I've been trying to decide on exhaust and tune. Although I've read a lot of threads with various opinions on tunes, I know the most up to date answers can change year to year.. so I figured I'd stir the pot again.

A few questions:

CS Racing exhaust
- Has anyone heard or used a CS racing exhaust on a V4? If so, what do you think of it?
- I keep watching this Youtube video and can't help but think it's worth trying for only $1k. It looks subtle and sounds absolutely satanic!
Tune
- What's the latest hotness? Upmap? Brentuning? Custom tune? And if custom, can anyone recommend someone in the Houston area? From what I've read, Upmap wins.
Lag until new Upmap maps
- How long does it usually take Upmap to come out with tunes for new model years? Given the 22' changes with additional maps and such, I'm betting I can't put a 2021 map on a 2022 bike.

I've of course heard some mixed feedback at the dealership.. it depends who I ask. Their opinions range all the way from "Custom exhausts need a custom $1,200 tune, but still isn't as good as Ducati's" to my favorite yet, "Well.. the V4 actually has two ECUs, so therefore 'it won't work' unless you get the Akrapovic that comes with Ducati's tune".

Personally, I'm thinking to at least try the CS racing exhaust w/ a T800 MTorque Upmap for the 22' (when it's released) since it's worth a shot for $1k even if I hate it. I have only found a few people on Youtube with the exhaust and they say they're using the T800 Upmap with no problems.. but I know that can be subjective.

Thanks for any help and info. I know this is the age old question, but I'm really curious what your opinions are on this. I'm sure there's a portion of you who just say f it and get the Akrapovic w/ the Ducati tune and never think about it again.. haha..

RickD996 · Feb 6, 2022

SLR and UpMap are 'canned tunes, SLR probably slightly better.

Woolich do custom tunes, so probably better. You'll need to find someone experienced with the software and a supplier.

misfit · Feb 6, 2022

RickD996 said:
SLR and UpMap are 'canned tunes, SLR probably slightly better.

Woolich do custom tunes, so probably better. You'll need to find someone experienced with the software and a supplier.

Thanks Rick. I'm curious, do you know to what extent the UpMap modifies air/fuel ratio? Most of the feedback I've read is on the removal of the torque limiting in lower gears, which the 22' apparently now does natively in the new "Full" power mode.

With people running the same Mtorque map no matter if they're on stock exhausts, slip ons, or have full systems, I can't help but think these bikes are doing more automatic air/fuel ratio targeting than we think.

I mainly just want the bike to run right and be healthy with the exhaust, so I imagine there's no way around needing a map for it. It's just weird to me that people with stock exhausts also can run the same UpMap map with no issue, ya know? You'd think it'd be too lean or too rich if the maps are specifically made for more free-flowing aftermarket exhausts.

BP PanigaleV4S · Feb 6, 2022

The torque limiting thing is something separate from the air/fuel.

"Well.. the V4 actually has two ECUs, so therefore 'it won't work' unless you get the Akrapovic that comes with Ducati's tune".

WTF?

Vbreeze · Feb 6, 2022

I'm not a fan of the 'Akrapovic or the world will end' discourse coming from the dealers nor the absurd price of the Akrapovic. I hear the "omg it's so special tig welded by virgins no bends titanium etc." Pipes that cost the same as another bike have a stupid price.
The CS racing sounds pretty dang sweet, build looks very very minimal. I'm curious to see better images. Shipping 40 days out like everything these days.
I'm still running stock as the controls where I lived were pretty harsh. Now I've moved to Tuscany where all the speed cameras are covered in stickers and no one gives a .... about these regulations, so I'm thinking about it again.
Wondering about db killers at the track. That seems ......... They do random sound tests at Mugello here. If you get beckoned for a test & fail, that's the end of your day. That would suck. I need to go deeper with this. Slip-ons seem like a good idea for all of the above mentioned.

misfit · Feb 6, 2022

bp_SFV4 said:
The torque limiting thing is something separate from the air/fuel.

>>> "Well.. the V4 actually has two ECUs, so therefore 'it won't work' unless you get the Akrapovic that comes with Ducati's tune".

WTF?

Yeah for sure, totally understood on the torque limiting being totally separate from A/F ratio. But independent of the torque/throttle mapping, I was just asking to what extent the A/F is modified by the UpMap maps since I haven't seen much info on that difference (UpMap vs stock). Since I have read some people with a stock exhaust are running the UpMap Mtorque map (that's made for a slip-on), I'd think the A/F would be a bit out of wack for them, right? So it either is out of wack for them, or is sufficiently self-correcting.

And yeah, WTF indeed (to that "it work work because it has 2 ECUs" comment). I really had to bite my tongue when I heard that! I just sort of laughed it off and was like "Uhhhh ok haha well I'll figure it out when the bike arrives". Like yeah buddy, let's go ahead and pretend every single tuning solution that isn't the Ducati map "just won't work" and the entire world and internet is completely deluded since every dyno and sensor and data point that says otherwise are colluding in a massive conspiracy.

I literally lost sleep thinking about that comment, trying to wrap my head around how stupid someone has to be to say such a thing.

Vbreeze said:
I'm not a fan of the 'Akrapovic or the world will end' discourse coming from the dealers nor the absurd price of the Akrapovic. I hear the "omg it's so special tig welded by virgins no bends titanium etc." Pipes that cost the same as another bike have a stupid price.
The CS racing sounds pretty dang sweet, build looks very very minimal. I'm curious to see better images. Shipping 40 days out like everything these days.
I'm still running stock as the controls where I lived were pretty harsh. Now I've moved to Tuscany where all the speed cameras are covered in stickers and no one gives a .... about these regulations, so I'm thinking about it again.
Wondering about db killers at the track. That seems ......... They do random sound tests at Mugello here. If you get beckoned for a test & fail, that's the end of your day. That would suck. I need to go deeper with this. Slip-ons seem like a good idea for all of the above mentioned.

Search Youtube and you can find some other videos that show better images and closer looks at it, like these:

I really dig the minimal look, especially after hearing how the Arrow and Termignoni are prone to scraping with enough lean angle. When it's so much less expensive, I don't see why it's not worth a try. Maybe I'll just order it so I have it by the time I can figure out the tune on the 2022.

The DB regulations (mostly in Europe) are getting so ridiculous these days. Road legal bikes that are too loud for track days? Give me a break. It's a RACE TRACK! Call me a purist, but it's absurd that you can get kicked out of a track day for what's not even much noise. I understand something absurd, like open headers or whatever, but the DB limits they're trying to enforce now are just way too low. Sorry you have to deal with that crap.

MaverickiB · Feb 6, 2022

I'd go with a Woolich setup now that it is available. The Ducati Akra tune is not really an option since it requires purchasing an Akra system, and it is a fairly lackluster tune. As bikes slowly start to be tuned on Woolich, I've seen power numbers in excess of 10hp higher than the Ducati Performance Akra map.

BP PanigaleV4S · Feb 6, 2022

I'm not into the stupid loud exhausts. I live in a subdivision with nice houses, I don't want to be rattling people's teeth out or my own for that matter. Unless I'm on a track, I keep my DB killers in. The full Akra is plenty loud with them in. With them out, I wouldn't want to ride it without ear plugs.

The Corvette Museum track has noise limits which is due to the proximity of neighborhoods. They even have a microphone system that records track noise so if someone complains they can go back and say on whatever date and time they were within their permitted level.

The bike will only correct within very narrow limits. The Upmap really just removes the 5000-7000k power dip which is an emissions/noise compliance thing. You get some more power but its really about making the midrange a lot better. The bike starts and idles better too.

I've only heard of one guy scraping a Termi, and it was a heavy guy with a stock rear spring. I'd think if your're racing you would have the suspension sorted out.

I can't account for every model year, but there isn't an MTorque map for a 2020-2021 Panigale. IIRC, there was for the Streetfighter V4.

I shopped around a long time for my full Akrapovic system and nabbed one for $3325 shipped, new in the box from a Ducati dealer. The undertail for the new 2022 is like $7K but the 2018-2021 full system will fit it to and the retail is $2k cheaper.

As soon as the weather breaks here I'll get it to the dealer to be flashed with the Ducati Akrapovic map. I'm strictly an amateur rider who has to pay for it if I crash it. I like the idea of the torque mapping off of corners and the electronic features. If I feel like its hindering me I'll re-think it.

If I were to buy an aftermarket tune for sure it would be Woolich. For sure its better that the Ducati Akrapovic if even for the simple fact that its a wideband sensor tune for your bike, not a canned tune. But, there's the cost of the system, time to install it and tune it, which I'd do on a dyno. I've tried the road wideband auto tuning thing when I had a 1199 and I found it hard to hit all the points.

RickD996 · Feb 6, 2022

I sent SLR my dyno printout which showed the AFR, and they adjusted my 'canned' tune to suit. Pretty good service tbf.

RickD996 · Feb 6, 2022

I've done a little clip on my choice of exhaust for racing this season. Might be of interest?

Magoblanco · Feb 6, 2022

RickD996 said:
I've done a little clip on my choice of exhaust for racing this season. Might be of interest?

I believe you have your video
Private following that link
I’ve seen pretty much all
Your videos
Nice work [emoji106] I enjoyed them all

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

RickD996 · Feb 6, 2022

Magoblanco said:
I believe you have your video
Private following that link
I’ve seen pretty much all
Your videos
Nice work [emoji106] I enjoyed them all

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks Magoblanco!

Ah, OK, it's set for launch tomorrow. Doh!

SBK-SP · Feb 6, 2022

Vbreeze said:
I'm not a fan of the 'Akrapovic or the world will end' discourse coming from the dealers nor the absurd price of the Akrapovic. I hear the "omg it's so special tig welded by virgins no bends titanium etc." Pipes that cost the same as another bike have a stupid price…

If you’re into the details that separate very good from “the best”, you must actually do an eyes/hands-on inspection of the competition to Akrapovic.

I bought the top line full system Termignoni for my 2011 1198SP because EVERYONE said it was the best because the WSBK team was using it. Well the Termi looks really nice on the outside, but the inside was terrible with welding slag, extra pipe length sticking out into the exh flow st the junctions, just terrible.

I invested the time to trim/grind every bad spot smooth like Termi should have done. For some reason(s) my 1198 puts out 4-5 more whp/wtq than any other stock engine 1198 ever run at the shop.

I bought the Akrapovic for my next 2012 project and it was perfect, inside and out, so Akrapovic is my standard to measure other systems finish work, regardless of price. The Akra presents the best work every time.

Just sayin’ sometimes “the best” costs more, so judge it yourself so you know…

misfit · Feb 6, 2022

bp_SFV4 said:
I'm not into the stupid loud exhausts. I live in a subdivision with nice houses, I don't want to be rattling people's teeth out or my own for that matter. Unless I'm on a track, I keep my DB killers in. The full Akra is plenty loud with them in. With them out, I wouldn't want to ride it without ear plugs.

The Corvette Museum track has noise limits which is due to the proximity of neighborhoods. They even have a microphone system that records track noise so if someone complains they can go back and say on whatever date and time they were within their permitted level.

The bike will only correct within very narrow limits. The Upmap really just removes the 5000-7000k power dip which is an emissions/noise compliance thing. You get some more power but its really about making the midrange a lot better. The bike starts and idles better too.

I've only heard of one guy scraping a Termi, and it was a heavy guy with a stock rear spring. I'd think if your're racing you would have the suspension sorted out.

I can't account for every model year, but there isn't an MTorque map for a 2020-2021 Panigale. IIRC, there was for the Streetfighter V4.

I shopped around a long time for my full Akrapovic system and nabbed one for $3325 shipped, new in the box from a Ducati dealer. The undertail for the new 2022 is like $7K but the 2018-2021 full system will fit it to and the retail is $2k cheaper.

As soon as the weather breaks here I'll get it to the dealer to be flashed with the Ducati Akrapovic map. I'm strictly an amateur rider who has to pay for it if I crash it. I like the idea of the torque mapping off of corners and the electronic features. If I feel like its hindering me I'll re-think it.

If I were to buy an aftermarket tune for sure it would be Woolich. For sure its better that the Ducati Akrapovic if even for the simple fact that its a wideband sensor tune for your bike, not a canned tune. But, there's the cost of the system, time to install it and tune it, which I'd do on a dyno. I've tried the road wideband auto tuning thing when I had a 1199 and I found it hard to hit all the points.

Good memory.. yeah I don't see the MTorque map for the Panigale, just checked. I guess with the new "full" power mode in the 2022 V4 I'm not too worried about the throttle response in the lower gears, but I know that has historically been a big issue on the other bikes. I'll play around with that when the bike gets here. They claim it only dumbs down the power in 1st (if you're in "full" mode) now.

Thanks - I'll look into Woolich! I think as long as Upmap comes out with *something* for the 2022, I'll throw that on in the meantime once I get the exhaust just so it's running at least a bit better than it would on the stock map. I sent them an email to ask when they think they will have maps available for the 2022. Woolich sounds better but also more involved and expensive, so we'll see.

Alkhater · Feb 6, 2022

RickD996 said:
SLR and UpMap are 'canned tunes, SLR probably slightly better.

Woolich do custom tunes, so probably better. You'll need to find someone experienced with the software and a supplier.

Rick, SLR (DimSport based platform) offer both canned and custom tunes.

The Woolich platform allows users to create custom maps, they actually don't modify maps at Woolich but the platform allows their dealers to do custom or canned tunes and also users to create their own maps and share them. Woolich also allows auto A/F tuning as an option.

Alkhater · Feb 6, 2022

misfit said:
Thanks Rick. I'm curious, do you know to what extent the UpMap modifies air/fuel ratio? Most of the feedback I've read is on the removal of the torque limiting in lower gears, which the 22' apparently now does natively in the new "Full" power mode.

With people running the same Mtorque map no matter if they're on stock exhausts, slip ons, or have full systems, I can't help but think these bikes are doing more automatic air/fuel ratio targeting than we think.

I mainly just want the bike to run right and be healthy with the exhaust, so I imagine there's no way around needing a map for it. It's just weird to me that people with stock exhausts also can run the same UpMap map with no issue, ya know? You'd think it'd be too lean or too rich if the maps are specifically made for more free-flowing aftermarket exhausts.

UpMap runs the tune richer than stock which is super lean. UpMap offers Mtorque maps for both stock and aftermarket exhausts (except Euro 5, no mtorque yet i think).

BP PanigaleV4S · Feb 6, 2022

If you are thinking about the Up-Map/T800, I'd probably dig a little deeper and get the SLR. The support is better and its anecdotally a better tune.

Alkhater said:
UpMap offers Mtorque maps for both stock and aftermarket exhausts

Not for the 2020-2021 Panigale.

Alkhater · Feb 6, 2022

These guys just made 12hp using Woolich on the SF. Almost 200hp and more power everywhere...

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misfit · Feb 6, 2022

bp_SFV4 said:
If you are thinking about the Up-Map/T800, I'd probably dig a little deeper and get the SLR. The support is better and its anecdotally a better tune.

Not for the 2020-2021 Panigale.

You just reminded me that I sent a message to UpMap a week ago and still haven't heard back, so today's email is my second message to them asking about the 2022... I think you're onto something! Haha..

I'll reach out to SLR and see what they have to say. Thank you sir.

KarlKani · Feb 6, 2022

That CS exhaust looks like garbage and I have never heard of it

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22' V4S - Exhaust & tune questions

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