899 or 1299?

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Let's get one thing straight : 145 horsepower is an absolute ....-ton of power for a sub-400 pound vehicle.

Haha, yeah but power is addicting, and I agree with everything jarelj said, but the rush when you grab a handful of throttle on this thing is worth it, so much fun. It really depends on your priorities, for track work again I'd get a $5k R6, I would never take a $12k+ machine on track unless I was an expert, it's too likely you're going to bin it. For street and mountain road fun, you can ride the 1299 at a 7/10ths pace and it's relatively easy to manage, especially with the electronics. Yes, it takes an expert to ride it at 10/10ths but who cares? The bike should be about what makes you happy, lap times aren't the primary issue for most owners.
 
Haha, yeah but power is addicting, and I agree with everything jarelj said, but the rush when you grab a handful of throttle on this thing is worth it, so much fun. It really depends on your priorities, for track work again I'd get a $5k R6, I would never take a $12k+ machine on track unless I was an expert, it's too likely you're going to bin it. For street and mountain road fun, you can ride the 1299 at a 7/10ths pace and it's relatively easy to manage, especially with the electronics. Yes, it takes an expert to ride it at 10/10ths but who cares? The bike should be about what makes you happy, lap times aren't the primary issue for most owners.

Agreed, if I was buying a street bike, I'd get a 1299S hands-down! :cool:
 
That would be embarrassing, but doubt it happens all that often

Actually happens ALL the time! Many of the fastest guys out there are on small bikes. Especially if it's a track without really long straights.
 
Yes I agree with jarel. From what Ive learned doing track days so far is its not HP that wins the all the battles. It comes down to braking and corner speed. I'm sure there's more but these two pieces make a huge difference in my mind.
 
I think you need to decide what you want out of the bike and your personal goals.

If flying around a track trying to improve laps times is your goal then pick a bike you will be most comfortable on whether its a 899/1199/1299 or Honda Fireblade only you can determine that. Jarel hit it on the head in his post and most importantly decide what type of tracks you will be going to most. Short/long/slow/fast. I use an R6/GSXR 750 on the short tracks around here but my favorite is Big Willow its long and fast and that is where my 1199 shined can't wait to get the 1299 out there.

The key is to pick a line and stay on that line and practice braking and throttle control and your lap time will improve no matter what you are on. Like everything else it just takes a lot of practice and get some coaching you will eventually move up to the advance group.

If your goal is just having a blast on a track day pulling wheelies out of each corner exit and down a straight get a 1199 or 1299 the fun factor is where its at. Not everyone wants to be a racer, majority of the people on this forum just want to have fun on track days.

For the streets both bikes have enough power to get you into trouble if you act a fool. For canyon riding I would of recommend the 899 over the 1199 because you have to work a little harder (throttle control, shifting) on the 1199 but now that that the 1299 is more refined/linear/smoother/better handling/more mid range than the 1199 I would recommend the 1299 over both.

I have a buddy named Kai who had just started riding last year never rode a bike before and now he is winning trophies left and right. I gave the guy one tip on trail braking and saw him improve 5 seconds in one track day some people are just naturals go figure.
 
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Thanks to everyone who chimed in on this thread. I decided to go with the 899 and I'm so glad I did. I don't know what I was thinking when I rented this bike in California, this bike has insane amounts of power, way beyond my abilities as a rider. I look forward to getting used to it and learning. As a person who normally gets buyer's remorse when I get a candy out of the vending machine, I'm proud to report I have zero regret since purchasing this bike. Maybe it's the 20 year jump from a '94 900ss to a modern 2015 superbike, but I am blown away by this machine.
 
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I went with the 899 and I couldn't be happier. Thanks to everyone for their advice. I don't know what I was thinking, this bike has way more power than I need. I look forward to taming it. I have zero buyer's remorse, and I get buyer's remorse getting candy from a vending machine. I'm in love.
 
Our local track is tight and twisty and I have a lot more fun on my R6 than I do the 1098. Totally irrelevant I know, but I thought I'd throw it in there :D
 
If you took the same rider and gave them seat time to get comfortable on both an 899 and 1299, and compared lap times on a "normal" track (not Road America, Cota, etc. - long/fast tracks), here's what I think you'd see:

TRACK DAY riders (not professional racers):
The slowest 10% of riders would be faster on the 1299
The middle 80% of riders would be faster on the 899
the fastest 10% of riders would be faster on the 1299

Now that I've gone back and forth (from 1199 to 899 to 1199R frankenbike) I can firmly confirm in firm terms, firmly, that the 899 is a sweet package for the track and much easier to ride fast than the "big" bike is. I would venture to guess I'm in that fastest 10% bracket, but even still it takes a lot of work to get the advantage from the big bike to where you can go faster on it than the 899. Braking and setting up a good smooth fast corner entry from 170mph is immensely more difficult than doing it from 150mph, and most people will tend to over brake from 170 and have a slower corner entry than they would from 150. That translates into 10ths every time, every corner, the faster straight away speeds actually hurt your corner entry speeds. Same thing goes for getting on the throttle at the apex, it's easier to get on the throttle earlier and harder in the turn on a lower HP bike. The big bike wants to stand up and wheelie out of the turn, which is very difficult to control, which translates into slower initial exit speed. The big bike can make up some time in acceleration but usually not enough unless the rider is really capable of using the power before the bike is fully upright. Might sound easy, but it's not, and electronics can only do so much to help with it. TC can keep the rear from spinning up on the exit, but it won't keep you from running wide if you can't steer the bike on the throttle while still leaned over. That takes good bike control, body position, weighting the pegs, etc.

Im bored at work and reading through old threads and saw this one. This is very well put; I agree 100%.

I initially started riding the track on a 2005 Gixxer 600 (bought it track ready for $3500, perfect starter bike). It was totaled, then I started riding my 2006 R1. I was faster on the R1 lap times wise, but found myself getting passed by slower bikes. I was still new and inexperienced and thought "there is no way that guy should be passing me on that bike".

So I parked the R1 and bought a 2007 ZX6R. I did some track schools, got lots of instruction at track days and started racing. The '07 ZX6R's were turds. Even with a full exhaust and dyno tune, mine only made 109hp. I worked on skills, corner speed, braking, etc.

Fast forward several years and now I can apply those skills to the faster bike. These days, I am faster on a Liter bike. I have a lot of laps at Jennings on various bikes, including my R6 Superbike, but set my personal best on the RSV4 (1:16.93).

If somebody rides the Liter bike like a straightaway hero, they will actually be slower. They will end up getting poor corner exits, then over-braking and carrying too little corner speed. But if you can carry good entry speed and mid-corner speed, steer the bike on the throttle while exiting, and trail brake to apex using the brakes to control your speed rather than your fear, you can go faster on a Liter bike.

So I totally agree with your initial assessment. Slower riders will be faster on a Liter bike. Then the majority of "good" riders will be faster on a MW bike, but those who can adapt MW-bike skills to a Liter bike will be faster on a Liter bike.
 
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Said every person ever on a Gixxer 1000 who gets passed by SV650's at track days! :D

That would be embarrassing, but doubt it happens all that often

False.

Ive been an Instructor for STT since 2009 and I can assure you it happens at every single track day, many times. There are guys (Expert racers) capable of turning :36's at Barber, :01's at TalladegaGP, :19's at Jennings, etc...on SV's. All of those times are faster than 95% of the Advanced track day groups at those tracks.

When it comes to the track, rider skill always overcomes HP...always.
 
It really depends on your priorities, for track work again I'd get a $5k R6, I would never take a $12k+ machine on track unless I was an expert, it's too likely you're going to bin it. For street and mountain road fun, you can ride the 1299 at a 7/10ths pace and it's relatively easy to manage, especially with the electronics.


I don't understand this logic. Riders wont take a 12k bike to the track, where based on your skill level, are placed in the appropriate group and can ask for help to work on your skills as a rider. Conversely, you'd rather take your bike to the mountains and ride like you are on the track, dragging knees thru corners (Or at least trying to) and have to deal with cars, people texting, trucks, bicyclists, dirt, trees, etc..... I think the street is more dangerous and there is a higher occurrence of crashing and bodily harm that a track day.
 
I don't understand this logic. Riders wont take a 12k bike to the track, where based on your skill level, are placed in the appropriate group and can ask for help to work on your skills as a rider. Conversely, you'd rather take your bike to the mountains and ride like you are on the track, dragging knees thru corners (Or at least trying to) and have to deal with cars, people texting, trucks, bicyclists, dirt, trees, etc..... I think the street is more dangerous and there is a higher occurrence of crashing and bodily harm that a track day.

Agree 100%.

I have never understood that logic either.

And personally, I have the opposite way of thinking. If I am going to spend $25k on a Superbike, I am going to take it to the track where I can ride it the way it is designed to be ridden, in the environment it was built for.

I would rather have the $5-6k bike to tool around with on the streets when it doesn't really matter. Anything is fine for the streets. On the track, I would rather have the best machine/equipment available.
 
Amen. The more I think about it...the more I want to take the 1299 to the track. I was tooling around with the idea of converting my gsxr 1000 into a track bike or picking up a track ready bike. Now I'm thinking take the 1299 there...that's why I bought her.
 
Agree 100%.

I have never understood that logic either.

And personally, I have the opposite way of thinking. If I am going to spend $25k on a Superbike, I am going to take it to the track where I can ride it the way it is designed to be ridden, in the environment it was built for.

I would rather have the $5-6k bike to tool around with on the streets when it doesn't really matter. Anything is fine for the streets. On the track, I would rather have the best machine/equipment available.

My thought exactly . I read all these threads on HP figures etc etc for bikes that are going to be street bikes .Why does it matter ?
 
Amen. The more I think about it...the more I want to take the 1299 to the track. I was tooling around with the idea of converting my gsxr 1000 into a track bike or picking up a track ready bike. Now I'm thinking take the 1299 there...that's why I bought her.

That is what I would do.

The Gixxer 1000's are great street bikes (I had a 2006). Comfortable ergo's, easy to ride, great mid-range and smooth, linear powerband.

Id keep the Gixxer on the street and put the 1299 on the track.

I put the OEM plastics back on my RSV4 and am riding it on the street, and the 1299S will be for the track.
 
My thought exactly . I read all these threads on HP figures etc etc for bikes that are going to be street bikes .Why does it matter ?

Agree completely.

Hell, my Honda Grom is a great street bike and it only makes 11hp. :)
 
I don't understand this logic. Riders wont take a 12k bike to the track, where based on your skill level, are placed in the appropriate group and can ask for help to work on your skills as a rider. Conversely, you'd rather take your bike to the mountains and ride like you are on the track, dragging knees thru corners (Or at least trying to) and have to deal with cars, people texting, trucks, bicyclists, dirt, trees, etc..... I think the street is more dangerous and there is a higher occurrence of crashing and bodily harm that a track day.

If I don't drag knee on the street then people might not think I'm fast and judge me:(
 
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