A discussion about the new electronics

I'd like to have a discussion about all of the new electronic wizardry on the Panigale. There's a lot of new features but some of it may not be doing what you think it's doing.

First, the ride by wire throttle is controlled by the ECU and it is intigral to most of the new systems - lets take the riding modes:

Some people assume that riding modes are actually ECU maps that adjust ignition timing and air/fuel ratios for different results or conditions, uh... no:

Riding modes are simple variations in throttle opening as controlled by the ECU:

Race mode is as close to 1 to 1 (hand to throttle body) linear as Ducati can make it but there may be some variations to control engine characteristics as assumed demand by the throttle position and rate of opening. I generally have a problem with that assumption part of the equation.

Sport mode attempts to give a smoother throttle response by creating an exponential throttle body reaction to your actual position and rate of opening - slower (than your hand) at the beginning and faster toward full open.

And rain mode gives both an exponential curve and limits full open position so that at no time can you go to wide open throttle.

Now lets take a look at the new slipper system or EBC: Engine Brake Control is not a new type of slipper clutch but is more electronic algorithms to work the electronic throttle. EBC monitors throttle position, gear selected and crankshaft de-acceleration rate and administers throttle openings to balance the torque forces acting on the tire. EBC has a three level operating system and is integrated into the three Riding Modes. In other words it's a form of RPM matching that can adjust the amount of deceleration by adding throttle wile slowing.

I'm hoping that this system is variable and one can tune it to the desired effect. This is one of the new innovations along with the quick shifter that sounds really good to me and may work really well.
But it is frighteningly odd to have the ECU add throttle when you have the position at fully closed and you're trying to decelerate.

Comments, corrections, and additions are welcome.

Interesting and well done on the explanation flynbulldog

All sounds the same mode control that the Diavel and Multistrada have. They both work well as do the DTC and ABS functions.

As for the EBC this is a whole new concept for Ducati and we`ll have to see how well it works.
I also think that the slipper/servo clutch as used on the Diavel/MTS is used as well.
So there will be 2 systems controlling way that the bike is controled during braking/deceleration.

As for the quickshifter, if it is the same as the 1198SP std equipment it is a very basic unit. Hopefully there will be a strain guage fully adjustable unit available soon.

Thanks Dave, I haven't read a mention of the Slipper clutch for the 1199. I wonder if EBC is an addition to the slipper system or a replacement?

I guess the slipper function is here in the Panigale along with the EBC, I found this:

New for a top-of-the-range Ducati Superbike is a "wet", oil-bath clutch. Based very closely on the design of the Multistrada and Diavel components, the clutch assembly features a "slipper" function and a progressive self-servo mechanism that compresses the friction plates when under drive from the engine. While enhancing frictional efficiency, this also results in a rider-friendly light clutch lever "feel" at the handlebar. Conversely, when the drive force is reversed (over-run), the mechanism reduces pressure on the friction plates, enabling a true racing "slipper" action, reducing the destabilizing effect of the rear-end under aggressive down-shifting and provide a much smoother feeling when closing the throttle or down-shifting under normal riding conditions.

Click to expand...

I thought the level of EBC was determined from the rate of change of acceleration / deceleration of the crank and was more to prevent highsides etc rather than acting as a slipper clutch.

weed said:

I thought the level of EBC was determined from the rate of change of acceleration / deceleration of the crank and was more to prevent highsides etc rather than acting as a slipper clutch.

Click to expand...

what do you think a slipper clutch is for?

flynbulldog said:

what do you think a slipper clutch is for?

Click to expand...

The slipper clutch is for down changes on corner entry etc & doesn't contribute anything when it comes to preventing high sides. The EBC is more for traction control

weed said:

The slipper clutch is for down changes on corner entry etc & doesn't contribute anything when it comes to preventing high sides. The EBC is more for traction control

Click to expand...

No I think you have it backwards. The EBC Electronic braking control is to prevent the wheel from locking on downshift - just like a slipper clutch.
and, one can highside from either deceleration or acceleration.

flynbulldog said:

No I think you have it backwards. The EBC Electronic braking control is to prevent the wheel from locking on downshift - just like a slipper clutch.
and, one can highside from either deceleration or acceleration.

Click to expand...

I had better re read the manual then

weed said:

I had better re read the manual then

Click to expand...

Do you have access to a manual? I'd love to see it.

flynbulldog said:

Do you have access to a manual? I'd love to see it.

Click to expand...

No mate. just my usual ........ but I am trying to get some info from an inside source in the meantime

it'll be interesting on how quickly the throttle opens with the 1199, I know with my S1000RR, even with the race plug put in and in slick mode, the throttle is then a 1/4 turn throttle. The throttle position doesn't equate to instant and proportionate throttle butterfly position. Even with the above setting, the bike doesn't hit 100% throttle butterfly opening for a couple seconds after WOT on the actual throttle, which would make sense since BMW had to go through like four iterations of hp curves to make it rideable.

mr anderson said:

it'll be interesting on how quickly the throttle opens with the 1199, I know with my S1000RR, even with the race plug put in and in slick mode, the throttle was a 1/4 turn throttle, the throttle position didn't equate to instant and proportionate throttle butterfly position. even with the above setting the bike didn't hit 100% throttle butterfly opening for a couple seconds after full turn on the actual throttle, which would make sense since BMW had to go through like four iterations of hp curves to make it rideable.

Click to expand...

I can tell you this: the electronic throttle on my 335is is so freakin slow and so far away from my actual input that its dangerous.

I hate BMW's TBW so much I'll never buy another BMW. "Drivers car" my ....
I even noticed a disconnect on the throttle on the GT1600 just sitting in the parking lot with the bike running and moving the grip.

The TBW on the Mutli is almost perfect. It's very sensitive and accurate. The only thing I notice is that sometimes it doesn't come down to idle as fast as I move the grip. That doesn't bother me at all.

I hope the 1199 works as well as the MTS1200.

Was wondering how many physical ECU(s) will be in the completely equipped 1199 (ETC,DTC,EBC,DQS,ABS).Which part of the bike? The bike seems pretty compact to find space...What do you guys think?

My humble guess:

The ECU for the EMS will manage the applications of ETC,DTC,EBC,DQS and while another ECU for the ABS..The instrument cluster will be another ECU.Another 1 for DDA+ (gps),1 for the LCM (light Control Module) and 1 for the DES.So i think 6 ECUs or computers.

The wheel speed sensors' output will be connected directly to the ABS's ECU.
For DTC intervention, the ABS will feed the wheel speed info via the differential CANBUS to the EMS (knowing gear position/crank speed), where it will decide if to ...... ignition advance/reduce fuel mass.

The ETC will be used to support EBC with throttle flap control.The flaps control the air pressure or vaccum built-up in the throttle body during the induction stroke of the piston's downward force (in-turn the con-rod to crankshaft speed) when the intake valves are open.A small throttle flap opening will slow down the piston's downward force (slowing -down),while a larger flap opening will allow better ease to get air thus allowing the piston to move downward faster(speeding-up) or reducing pumping losses.

The DQS will be supported by the EMS which know the gear position/crank-speed and managing the ETC.The rider can just keep the throttle-handle wide open.

The power modes settings of track/sport/wet will involved by EMS working on the ETC (air mass), ignition coil (spark advance/retardation ...resulting in torque) and fuel injector(s) pulse-width (fuel mass)

ETC=Electronic Throttle Control or ride by wire..which also double up for idle speed control and "cold choke". Strange why there is no cruise control application with the ETC on the multistrada....most of the Hardware are already there... maybe ducati will also have forward radar sensor to detect front vehicle to make it complete for active cruise control....

The ECU of the instrument cluster will be the "user interface" for all the application settings and this ECU will again use the CANBUS to communicate to the already connected ABS (ECU and EMS (ECU)....

The DDA+ ECU will use the CANBUS to request engine management data like throttle opening, DTC intervention,speed etc.. from EMS(ECU).This request of huge amount of data will certainly means high traffic for the BUS, good think the rider does it when the bike is in stand-still where other ECU's more critical information like dynamic wheel-speed info..etc is not in play and needed when bike is still

LCM will be like boosting the 12-14Volt battery to higher voltage level and able to drive several LEDs to support bikes' lighting(s)...

Have you guys wonder why ever since ride-by-wire is being adopted by Ducati they switch their ECU supplier from Magnetic Marelli to Mitsubishi, which also result in the change (motorized) throttle body to Mikuni. Italian to Japanese...

Is it because of cost? But the YEN is not doing so well either and is hurting their export..

I'm riding a RSV4 (trading-in for the 1199 soon) and its ride-by-wire is super sweet really love it and Kudos to Magnetic marelli (MM)

Even the monster(s) had switched to SiemensVDO...

Man the MM are certainly losing their market share soon, left with the hyper and SFS...
MM has been with Ducati way as back as 916 dayzz

I also have a 2010 RSV4-Factory and given the number of issues with the fly-by-wire, I am guessing it had less to do with cost but with reliability. Just my guess.

What is das?

What is DAS in RACE MODE?
See and pause at time 5:54.

Ducati 1199 Panigale - Troy Bayliss and Marinelli on the Mugello track! - YouTube

flynbulldog said:

I'd like to have a discussion about all of the new electronic wizardry on the Panigale. There's a lot of new features but some of it may not be doing what you think it's doing.

First, the ride by wire throttle is controlled by the ECU and it is intigral to most of the new systems - lets take the riding modes:

Some people assume that riding modes are actually ECU maps that adjust ignition timing and air/fuel ratios for different results or conditions, uh... no:

Riding modes are simple variations in throttle opening as controlled by the ECU:

Race mode is as close to 1 to 1 (hand to throttle body) linear as Ducati can make it but there may be some variations to control engine characteristics as assumed demand by the throttle position and rate of opening. I generally have a problem with that assumption part of the equation.

Sport mode attempts to give a smoother throttle response by creating an exponential throttle body reaction to your actual position and rate of opening - slower (than your hand) at the beginning and faster toward full open.

And rain mode gives both an exponential curve and limits full open position so that at no time can you go to wide open throttle.

Now lets take a look at the new slipper system or EBC: Engine Brake Control is not a new type of slipper clutch but is more electronic algorithms to work the electronic throttle. EBC monitors throttle position, gear selected and crankshaft de-acceleration rate and administers throttle openings to balance the torque forces acting on the tire. EBC has a three level operating system and is integrated into the three Riding Modes. In other words it's a form of RPM matching that can adjust the amount of deceleration by adding throttle wile slowing.

I'm hoping that this system is variable and one can tune it to the desired effect. This is one of the new innovations along with the quick shifter that sounds really good to me and may work really well.
But it is frighteningly odd to have the ECU add throttle when you have the position at fully closed and you're trying to decelerate.

Comments, corrections, and additions are welcome.

Click to expand...

EBC is nothing new, the Triumph Daytona has it in lieu of an actual slipper clutch. Works quite well from my experience.

PaddockStand said:

EBC is nothing new, the Triumph Daytona has it in lieu of an actual slipper clutch. Works quite well from my experience.

Click to expand...

MV has had it for a number of years as well but it is new to Ducati.

My BMW (car) with 7spd dual clutch auto manual has has RPM matching on downshifts and I hate it.

That's why you gotta get that third pedal, flynbulldog