Back to back set up standard ABS and S

Speaking of weight and springs, anyone remember these spy photos of the "fat" rider testing the load of soon to be 2012 Panigale?

Spy Photos: Ducati 1199 Panigale Load Testing

Trauma said:

Where did you get it?

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I got it from Dan Kyle. I get all my Ohlins gear from him, he's almost always got what I need in stock.

Bowdy69 said:

I'm happy with the investment, it's going to be a great season of racing in 2013, the bikes are great, look, sound, feel, better than my Yamaha's, and they had a lot of time spent on them... We had a huge amount of interest over the past weekend, lots of people taking photos and just asking about the bikes... For that alone they are worth it, sponsor value comes from sparking interest from the public, and as we all know Ducati is king for that... With or without messers Rossi and Burgess..

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Interesting that your other bikes were Yamahas. My 2 race bikes are a 2007 R6 and 2009 R1.

The R6 sounds like any other 4 cyl screamer. The R1 is more unique, like my 1199. I'll be interested to hear more from you as you get a chance to race them this year. Hopefully if I'm able to get the 1199 where I want it to be then I can make the jump to racing it. In the mean time there's lots of track days to do

Bowdy69 said:

Tank you Xbox, maybe you can find your way to Australia and we can put you on one of ours at Philip island or TB 21 can show you how one should be piloted on the track... Happy holidays

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Thanks and I hope you realise that would definitely be worth the trip from Europe

Thanks for the write up on your test results Bowdy69!

I'm a avid trackdayer who wishes he had the "time" (read talent) to race the Panigale in a series. Though I went for the 'S' for the ohlins bling, after a handful of trackdays, I agree the base with the difference spent on suspension would result in a better platform.

Just curious, what were the final settings for the 'S'?

Keep the reports coming!

Thanks for starting this thread Bowdy. It's largely the same I've experienced this past season. Racing a base model that took some time to setup. I dumped the shock after the first test and installed a TTX MKII, initially with a 9.0 spring, then a 9.5. At 79kg and the weight distribution of the new engine placement I found a significant amount of "rocking" during hard accelerations. Ran out of adjustment in the stock forks so had GP Suspension out of Seattle, WA create custom internals (this was prior to Ohlins cartridge kit availability; although I'd choose them either way) and have since had them revalve 3 times after much testing. It felt pretty dialed at the last session.

After further testing we installed a 1.1 spring in the rear that was a tad stiff so we may either install a 1.0 or revert to 9.5 in combination with the new fork setup.

This probably the most difficult bike I've ever had to setup. I went from sliding the rear all over the place in the first few sessions and wondering why I'd dumped my perfectly dialed S1K to now having a bike I feel pretty confident with. Part of the problem was that 6-8months ago the availability of suspension offerings was very limited. Unfortunately, I ran out of time before the season ended here so looking forward to following your progression and I hope you're willing to continue to share your setup experiences.

All the best and good luck this season.

Subscribed!

No worries gent's will keep the info coming if your interested,

Tri, looking at your weight and the problems with wheel spin I'd almost say you've compensated for a lack of damping in the front with harder springs on the rear.... I've often found "rock" or weigh transfer comes from two main issues, soft damping in the forks meaning they unload too quickly and force weight to the rear, and the rider moving back in the seat.

The second one is a real issue on the pani, I played a little this weekend with position in the seat... First thing is get the race seat, height difference helps a little, second was to fit a pad forcing me to sit forward, will place a photo of the pad, this "will" make a difference...

I am 97kg with my race gear, ended up with an 8kg spring, I will put up the setting for damping shortly...

A Stiff or hard rear will end in wheel spin, I'd like to compare notes too, I flattened the bike a little yesterday, took 18mm out of the rear ride height, sag in the rear @12mm sag on the front @22mm

I was getting some squat from the rear on the 8kg but increased the compression to stop this, also made a conscious effort to sit forward on the bike to stop my body weight impacting on the bike, I focus on weighting the outside foot peg which makes me sit forward... That and a little weight in the inside bar makes the pani turn in and hold a line under full drive. Best bike I've ridden from the crate for turn in and line, just needed a bit of setting up..

I think I will end up trying a C5 shim stack and 8.5 spring on the 5th of jan which is our next test day... Should have had time to fit new valving in the front by then, I'm planning on leaving the front ohlins alone until I've settled the rear, they were good just as long as I pushed the front and loaded the tyre, the minute I backed off they were vague... Only had one real moment on the front trail braking in to a down hill hairpin.. More about rider error than the bike... Was 34deg yesterday and 64 track temp... Too hot for the 3rd day of testing...


Hope you all have a great Christmas...

Pete

i installed the race seat on mine and with my short legs I found it had me sitting too high. I cut it down to about 1/2 the thickness and its just about perfect.

Shortening the rear shock gave me much better feel from the bike. Less twitchy, especially in transitions.

The only thing I'd like to tweak right now is the throttle map in race mode. Its a bit twitchy for my liking when I'm just starting to open it up.

I used to have the same problem on my R1 but was able to correct it with a reflash. Hopefully someone comes up with a decent way to do the same thing for the 1199.

hello, i am from france and yours settings are very interesting!
I will practice 5 weeks on circuit in 2013.
Could you give me an advise about the rear spring the most adapted to my 68-69 kg (without my equipment)

I think the 9kg spring is too hard for me and a 8 or 8.5 would help to have a better bike or a better using of the rear tire?

Thank you for your answer

Toni, depends on a number of things, however, most of the guys I am sharing data with have the same thoughts and feed back, over sprung in the rear...

I'd suggest the stock C4 valving will be fine with an 8kg spring, I am assuming u have an "s" or Tri... If u have a base model change the shock, I've stripped the stock shock now and it's not up to much in regards to being valved... I was playing around with spare shocks laying around in the workshop.. Tried the TTX out of my triumph 675R, perfect fit... Needed 20mm in the ride hight to get the length right, the only thing is the adjusters are on the wrong side...

Also have a Penske from my 2008R1, fits a treat because it has a remote res...

Weight with gear is critical and setting initial sag is also important, I have down loaded all of our data now and will put up a final post on this thread shortly...

Happy Christmas guys and girls..

Pete

Hey Veck.

On the money with that buddy, I have both bikes set on 195 low to help with the power delivery, mentioned in an earlier comment, I know the semi-official ducati guys here in Aus are running 195 low on their bikes too, helping with that initial throttle - pick up out of the corner, I also made an effort to get back on the gas pre apex on as many corners as possible to help with the problem, whilst that helped with getting better drive it made the weight transition difficult to manage. Which brings us back to your point about "rocking"

A complex bike to set up, but starting to see good results, will put my data recorder on for the next test just to see where I'm on and off the gas so we can see if its the bike or me.

What I can tell ya is breaking points and turn in points on this bike are better than both of my R1's, although at the moment I'd be carrying more straight line speed on the yamaha's...

Will have slicks and full race set up on the bikes for the January tests... Hard to get enough time to ride both bikes and down load the info... I'm knackered from the last 3 days. I must be getting old.... Have a good Xmas

Pete

It's the obvious ones that gets me - especially when I didn't figure it out. Spent all last season complaining about initial throttle response and never thought to try 195lo. Thanks guys...

Thanks for the great write up Bowdy69. I'm interested in your exploits on the base as I find the rear shock gets hot and bothered on spirited road rides. Track days are on my list so I'd say it wouldn't make it through a 20 min session

First I'd like to say happy holidays to you all...

So as with any time I have out of the dreaded office I got down and dirty with the bikes, fully dismantled the standards rear shock, all I can say is I've seen better kit on older and cheaper bikes... Other shock is a major compromise and in my humble opinion this equipment will be void of any capability to provide effective damping once its hot...

It had very light weight oil in it, the valve stacks were agricultural, I found little bits of what looks like metal inside the shock housing... "Ducati, if you read these posts, get your .... together please, the brand and those dedicated to the brand deserve more"

Stock front forks are good quality, so very different to the rear, having stripped them this is my personal view of the base forks and what I'm doing to them, keeping the 1kg springs but will have .95 and 1.05 in the race kit as spares and for changing to a wet set up... Putting 7.5 weight oil with an initial air gap of 190mm... I am putting some time in to choosing a valving kit and shim stack, once I've settled on a shim stack I will post it for you all and put a bunch of photos up... The stock fork cartridge is better than the ohlins road and track forks fitted to early 1198 models, I know because I've pulled them apart and valved them for mates who race. The main challenge could be maintaining the charge in the forks, however I've had ohlins cartridge kits play up so its dependent on how much care is taken when building the forks... I can not stress enough that these forks are a great base to start and any rider changing them out will in my humble opinion be bloody fast and know how to translate feel from the front end...

Heavier oil the right air gap, right springs and the right shim stack will fix the unloading I experienced with them... This is a personal opinion based on building and setting up my own suspension since the wheel was invented...

In the name of simplicity I'm choosing to run ohlins rear shocks so both bikes have the same shock, however this is not a brand choice, more a matter of having ohlins on the number 1 bike and wanting to reduce parts transported to race meetings... I'd advise anyone getting a shock to shop around and make sure the provider gives you the new unit with a spring and valving close to your needs, then it's a matter of setting it up for you...

Id like to close on this point, all of us have varying levels of skill, experience and understanding, the ability to translate feel in to mechanical movement and tyre ware in to action or behaviour of the bike... Much has been written about set up, two things are important, tyre ware/life and rider confidence... Keith Code points out many times its rider input that makes the bike crash...

Once we have some base settings and are close I will share details with those of you that are interested, 8 weeks till WSBK in Australia and our first meeting of then2013 Australian champs, better get busy... Happy new year...

There's a member called "Wilkson" from your neck of the woods who also races and has been running a TTX36 mkII shock and a cartridge kit. You may know him..he's reported great success tho I don't know his weight.

So after reading this thread I switched sport mode back to 195lo and went for the usual Sunday morning ride. Timed a couple of sections that I've timed before and I was faster. This is on the road and I still need to find a front suspension setting I'm happy with but I can get on the power much earlier and be far more aggressive with the throttle.

Thanks Bowdy!

No worries gt3,

Glad to have helped, will have some front end settings shortly, just fitting a Penske shock to the base model, have the forks stripped at the moment and am testing shims and oil / air gaps... What do you weigh with ur gear on?


Just got my full race fairings and will post a photo of the bikes in full race trim shortly...

The forum is a great place to share, glad u had a result

Cheers

Bowdy69 said:

No worries gt3,

Glad to have helped, will have some front end settings shortly, just fitting a Penske shock to the base model, have the forks stripped at the moment and am testing shims and oil / air gaps... What do you weigh with ur gear on?


Just got my full race fairings and will post a photo of the bikes in full race trim shortly...

The forum is a great place to share, glad u had a result

Cheers

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I'm around 80kg with gear. I've not started on the front yet. Do find this to be a difficult bike to set up but incredibly rewarding. Also had the same seating outcome as you btw. Enjoy mate and thanks again.

This is one of the most informative threads I have read in a while, nice work Bowdy.
I have a Tri and have found it the most difficult bike to set up that I have ever owned, its interesting to read your progression. Thanks for posting!

Question for Bowdy, where did you get .95kg and 1.05kg spring for the Marzocchi forks? I had order from Ohlins and they only have .95kg, just wondering if your supplier have .90kg for the Marzocchi.

Thanks