Back to back set up standard ABS and S

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With all the hype/controversy on the DTC and EBC settings against tire changes I'm hoping there will be some test comparisons either by Bowdy or another skilled rider for this matter.
I mean since it seems Ducati didn't get all the info out about suspension settings and HI/LO engine settings maybe tire changing isn't so controversial more than any other superbike out there.
I know being on this forum since the 1199 beginning that many have already changed tires, but none have done a detailed write-up such as this about the suspension.
Thanks for the informative Bowdy.
 
Got them from "race tech" in Sydney, have a set from .90 up to 1.1, gives me the options to set up for wet or dry...

What I did find that was interesting is the air gap is critical on these forks... However in the current set up they give better feed back than the ohlins, I think this is actually specific to the kit because the ohlins on my R1 were the same, lacked some feel but worked really well in the middle of the stroke... Same as the ones on the S...

I'm testing this weekend on the new fork set up, I've fitted a Penske rear shock from my spares... I had a pair sitting in the R1 spares kit, they were from my 2006 race bikes... Fitted a treat, because they have a remote res I've fitted it inside the race seat and made up an adapter for changing the damping settings... They are good shocks, that good in fact that we ran one in the 2011 Australian insurance championship and finished 3rd in superbikes, should be interesting to see how the bike works with a good shock in it.... Will post some photos today, happy to help u if u want to get springs from Aus...

Cheers

Pete
 
Ok, if this helps for those who are interested in tyre information I will fit a pair of N-tech slicks for this weekend and run a comparo on the Pirelli and dunlops,

As an engineer I've had a really good look into this, it's not so complex, the real issue is profile and growth in the tyre... I will try to get some details this weekend and dig a little in to the tyre / traction control...

The main thing for everyone to consider is size of the tyre and profile, the traction control works by counting pulses from the wheels and as long as the front and rear are within the set parameters the traction control will not interfere, if a rider changes tyre profile and or size this will impact on the pulse rate and therefore send a different signal to the CPU, thus making the traction control work in a different way.

The range from 8 to 1 just tells the CPU to allow more or less pulse counts before applying control via the engine management system.

Compound of the tyre should not make any difference at all... Because unless the pulse count changes the CPU will not interfere... Only when we change size will this make a difference..

I do know Ducati actually have a setting for racers using Dunlops because they are a different rolling radius...

Hope to have more detail on this after the weekend... What will be interesting is how the traction control acts when on the edge of the tyre because the Pirelli and Dunlop are different radius at the edge of the sidewall...

Happy new year gents
 
Wow! Thanks for sharing all this great info Bowdy. I've ridden off-road and on-road for years but have never got deep into suspension setup and I have always wanted to gain more knowledge on this subject. Keep up the great thread cause I'm gather all the S model info I can get!

Thanks!

B
 
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Thanks for your thread Bowdy69, I'm certainly enjoying your comparisons and results.

After my first (rock-hard) ride I took my standard model to Steve, my ex racing suspension guru, who rebuilt the suspension with Ohlins technology and replaced the springs front and rear to suit my 95kg with kit. (He did comment it took LOTS of work to get the SACHS to work correctly)

The next 1500 kms of fast riding around Mt Hotham / Falls Creek / Mt Buffalo were superb.

I then threw the bike over to our tame racing rider - Dave - for a blast up and down Mt Buffalo. Dave got back and rang his wife straight away and asked if he could buy a new bike - that's how impressed he was with the Panigale. "Best sports bike that I have ridden"

The $1400 suspension work was spot-on and has made the bike oh so sweet!

Any recommendations for a set of new road/sport tyres?
 
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Some photos of the No1 bike

Here are some shots taken prior to loading up yesterday...

Check out the Penske shock... Still waiting for the ohlins TTX so this is a stop gap that I will be happy to pass on once we've got our proper shock...
 

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99Duc, the team are testing at PI on the 28th and ur welcome to pop out and check out the bikes and have a chat about the set up, I will have both the S and the base there for set up because its the last time we get to free test before WSBK in Feb and the Friday test before the event is usually mad...

I expect to have the ohlins in the base by then so I will have a couple of Penske shocks floating around if you would like to try one, I believe I know ur suspension guru, he is a top guy... Not sure i know Dave the tame bike racer Hehehehe!

Not sure i know any tame bike racers come to think of it...

Might see you at PI...

I did a tyre and DCT comparo at Easter Creek today....

Cheers
 
Hi Peter,

Yes, Steve Mudford is the suspension guy and he's pretty quick. Dave was a racer and instructor at PI Superbike school under Steve Brogie.

I'll be away riding on the Australia Day weekend, which is a shame as it would have been great catching up and getting a few tips. I will wait for Steve M to get some Ohlins on special before upgrading my rear shock. Anyway, I'm very happy with the Ohlins internals that Steve installed.

I'll certainly keep on eye on your progress in ASBK this year and of course the Panigale...

Regards
Peter
 
Yep, Steve is doing the suspension for Craig McMartin so he's on the money with the 1199, I like him, a nice guy and bloody good with suspension.

Glad to here someone had a crack at the rear shock, I personally though it was a really poor unit...

Have a good ride, hope your coming out for WSBK in feb...
 
Hi Peter,

Really looking forward to WSBK and will be there. It's my favourite event as we get to ride our bikes in the infield. WSBK has my real interest due to so many potential winners from so many manufacturers! (and 2 main races)

I did have one other comparison question and that is the wheels. Given the weight difference between alloy and forged, do you notice a considerable improvement when riding the Marchesini wheels, in terms of feel, turning etc? Does the suspension work better with the lighter wheels?

Rgds
Peter
 
Hey Pete,

In simple terms yes, quite a big difference, to mix it up I actually took the rims off the S and fitted them to the base, made enough of a difference that I will order a pair for the bike and use the stock ones as spares... I also had to increase compression damping because the bike tipped in easier which in turn meant I was compressing the forks quicker. As u know the key to a quick lap is consistent markers and tip in points...

Good question, yes the rims make a huge difference. Especially to turn in...

Cheers
 
Bowdy,

Can you please publish the S race settings you finally were happy with from you DES screen?

Amazing info and much appreciated.

Thanks
 
Will do, I'm at work in sydney today, will be home and working on the bikes this weekend, I did change the spring also... Left the valving alone for the time being, I will end up changing it but need to focus on getting a base line... The current valving in the rear is giving me acceptable adjustment.

I'm 93/94kg fully kitted with half a tank of fuel in the bike, ended up with an 8.5kg spring so I could get the sag right and still have some adjustment, I also tried winding off some spring but this impacted on the sag and introduced squat in the rear which translates in to pushing wide... New roo hide leathers gave me a 3kg reduction in weight... Very cool.

I digress!

The spring change is critical if u want to achieve good drive without squat. Or what was called (rocking) by one of the other guys in the thread.

The answer is yes, I will put up my settings for the S first thing Saturday, however damping is effected by the weight of the spring...

AND, the springs from my other TTX shocks don't fit the 1199S shock, "nice one ohlins!!!" It's actually been my only point of frustration, the kit fitted to the bike has a spec change so anyone who has spares such as springs from other ohlins rear shocks will be forced to buy springs specifically for the 1199...

Thanks...

Bowdy
 
Hey Pete,

In simple terms yes, quite a big difference, to mix it up I actually took the rims off the S and fitted them to the base, made enough of a difference that I will order a pair for the bike and use the stock ones as spares... I also had to increase compression damping because the bike tipped in easier which in turn meant I was compressing the forks quicker. As u know the key to a quick lap is consistent markers and tip in points...

Good question, yes the rims make a huge difference. Especially to turn in...

Cheers


Interesting, wonder if the Ducati dealership would be willing to fit the S wheels on the base for me and save a little coin?
 
Ok, a number of people have dropped me a line about suspension so I've decided to put together a thread about translating feel in to adjustment.

First sag. Rider sag for either base or S is Rear @ 26-28mm this is with the rider fully kitted in what ever gear he or she wares and half a tank of gas

Front @28-32mm, air gap in forks 190-210mm depending on riding conditions, 190mm road, 200 to 210 race. This will vary a little between base or S, but not much. I found both the base and S were potentially over sprung. Which is fine if ur racing or over 90kg.

So the bike had a tendency to rebound too fast, this is down to springs and light oil, the stock oil is 5 weight. The valving is ok but needs to be set at the high end where it feels stiff to combat the spring weight.

This translates in to the bike feeling like its squatting, it leads to the bike running wide. However if you are committed and push the front so the fork is in the middle of the stroke then its settled and will not rebound so quickly.

Some people will wind up the rear to try to load up the forks to stop this feeling. That leads to wheel spin and a feeling that the bike is unsettled.

At racing speeds the ohlins kit on the S/Tri and R is fine. For medium to fast road riding the bike feels like its fitting to get to the middle of the stroke where it needs to be at the apex of the corner just before the rider loads the rear by rolling on the throttle.

I've been getting back on the gas pre apex to combat this, which means I'm still loading the front whilst applying the throttle, stopping or reducing the impact of weight transition. So, its not so much that the bike squats, more that the front unloads too quickly. I set the electronic settings for the road using race rebound settings and road (sport) compression settings, this effectively rescued the speed at which the forks would rebound, trying to maintain the mid stroke movement.

The rear TTX is valved ok but sprung too heavy, the options are to run more rider sag on the stock spring but the impact of this will create pumping which will be exaggerated by the traction control. This forces the rider to stand the bike up before driving the bike hard from the corner, which in turn "tears" the tyre.

So spring weight is everything, once you've got the right weight springs the damping can be set to the conditions and riding style.

Finally, I want to just give thought to the technology, the system allows the owner to change settings, just because they are called race and sport doesn't mean they need to be set at race and sport, you can chose to have fast road and comfort, its a matter of getting the spring rate right and setting your modes to your style. Not all of you will take your bike on the track, but might run through the mountains on the weekend and then need to have a slower ride home, the electronic system allows you to have a setting for both... Race doesn't have to mean race...

I wish I'd had a pani when I raced the TT, or Bathurst, road racing on this bike would be awesome. Those of you who race and read this, feel free to add your thoughts, I've been rebuilding, setting and racing bikes but am still open to other thoughts around suspension.

Any questions ask away.

Bowdy
 
I weigh about 78kgs and found the rear shock sprung too stiff on my "S". I ordered an Ohlins spanner from Kyle Racing in the U.S. Softened a bit my rear's preload and re-adjusted my compression and rebound damping...improved a bit.

Great thread Bowdy!!!
 
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