Back to basics or embrace technology

Hi all,

First post although I have been lurking for almost a year and gained immense knowledge off you guys. This forum also contributed to my decision to purchase a used 1199s , after 10 years of absence on a bike.

So yeah, here's the deal. The dealer is offering a 10% discount off a 13' R if I trade my S. At the same time, there's a 1098R with 500km on it from a private seller. Hearing stories of how brutal the mid range of the 1098R, the rawness of it, I am left wondering if it's better to go with technology. To get the 1098R, I will have to sell my S privately with no trading option.

Rode a 916 biposto 10 years ago, even managed to race a couple of races on it.

Bike will be used for having fun at the track, and not use for street riding except for Starbucks run if friends want to. Would like to hear some opinions for you all.

Thank you!!

If it is a track toy, then I would go with the discounted R and try for more than a 10% discount. I love the 1098/1198 series, but the 1199 is a better bike in virtually every aspect.

meng said:

Hi all,

First post although I have been lurking for almost a year and gained immense knowledge off you guys. This forum also contributed to my decision to purchase a used 1199s , after 10 years of absence on a bike.

So yeah, here's the deal. The dealer is offering a 10% discount off a 13' R if I trade my S. At the same time, there's a 1098R with 500km on it from a private seller. Hearing stories of how brutal the mid range of the 1098R, the rawness of it, I am left wondering if it's better to go with technology. To get the 1098R, I will have to sell my S privately with no trading option.

Rode a 916 biposto 10 years ago, even managed to race a couple of races on it.

Bike will be used for having fun at the track, and not use for street riding except for Starbucks run if friends want to. Would like to hear some opinions for you all.

Thank you!!

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Can't go wrong with a 2013 R. Except you'll get killed on resale since the 1299 has been announced. I would stay with the S and fix it up. If you're racing or doing a lot of track days, you're gonna use a bunch of cash to get it to your specs. Why not just get the S you have up to your specs instead of losing thousands of $$$ on selling it and getting the R. Then still need to dump $$$ into the R to get it to your specs. Unless money is no option then get the 13 R. Just my $.02. Good luck man.

1098R is brutal and engaging 100% of the time. Any Panigale can be brutal and engaging, but only when asked. So the question is--do you want a vicious beast as a pet or a vicious beast on command as a pet?

Regarding track work: TC and ABS can save your life, your bike and a hell of a lot of $$$. Destroyed 1098R + Medevac + 100k Hospital bill or 2013 R + Lamborghini Gallardo + 2 weeks in Tahiti and no titanium pins in wrist, ankles and spine?

cosmok said:

If it is a track toy, then I would go with the discounted R and try for more than a 10% discount. I love the 1098/1198 series, but the 1199 is a better bike in virtually every aspect.

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It's kind of a track toy for me to release stress from work and get the adrenaline pumping, also to get a full body workout as a from of exercise. Totally agreed that the 1199 is a very easy bike to ride and go fast when I compared it to my 916.

Sergio1199Panigale said:

Can't go wrong with a 2013 R. Except you'll get killed on resale since the 1299 has been announced. I would stay with the S and fix it up. If you're racing or doing a lot of track days, you're gonna use a bunch of cash to get it to your specs. Why not just get the S you have up to your specs instead of losing thousands of $$$ on selling it and getting the R. Then still need to dump $$$ into the R to get it to your specs. Unless money is no option then get the 13 R. Just my $.02. Good luck man.

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The resale is my main worry as it is very low here. Not going to race it but just having fun at the track, which I try to go once every 3-4 weeks, work and family permitting. I must say the stock spec of the bike is already too good for me, expenses are mainly for tyres and oil changes and stuff.

After reading you guys posts, I may just keep my S and wait for the 1299 and see how it goes.

AntiHero said:

1098R is brutal and engaging 100% of the time. Any Panigale can be brutal and engaging, but only when asked. So the question is--do you want a vicious beast as a pet or a vicious beast on command as a pet?

Regarding track work: TC and ABS can save your life, your bike and a hell of a lot of $$$. Destroyed 1098R + Medevac + 100k Hospital bill or 2013 R + Lamborghini Gallardo + 2 weeks in Tahiti and no titanium pins in wrist, ankles and spine?

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I like you analogy!

Sometimes saying things in another perspective is the best way to explain.

i have both bikes the 1098R Bayliss and the 1199R and they are very different to ride.

The 1199R almost deceives you it's that easy to ride and there are a lot of riding aids to flatter you but you need to work the bike higher up in the rev range.

The1098R is the last great Ducati made (imho) and is a beast on the road and track while it does have DTC it's still the first production version so not a refined as what's on the 1199.

the 1098R is also finished depreciating and is probably on the way up value wise whereas Ducati made a huge amount of 1199r's and they are only going down in value also as mentioned earlier the 1199R is basically a mass produced bike and nothing like previous R's as it's not that special and does not differentiate itself enough from the base or the S even if it is great value.

You can't go wrong with either bike, the 1098R is a more special bike whereas the 1199 has all the latest greatest technology but it's a step away from Ducati's of old.

As many have said, do you want raw or refined/electrics equipped? Go ride both, before you make your decision.

As far as cost goes, bang for the buck goes a long way. Compare the OTD prices. Although, the 1198R is the last of great torque monster motors, it still should be cheaper than a 1199R.

Personally, if I was going for the refined/electrics equipped route, I would buy the new 1299! My 1199S is a great bike, but I think the 1299 will be incrementally better in every way.

IMHO

meng said:

my S.



Thank you!!

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Hell keep the S and enjoy. For what your doing it Is perfect. No need to upgrade at all.

reganc said:

i have both bikes the 1098R Bayliss and the 1199R and they are very different to ride.

The 1199R almost deceives you it's that easy to ride and there are a lot of riding aids to flatter you but you need to work the bike higher up in the rev range.

The1098R is the last great Ducati made (imho) and is a beast on the road and track while it does have DTC it's still the first production version so not a refined as what's on the 1199.

the 1098R is also finished depreciating and is probably on the way up value wise whereas Ducati made a huge amount of 1199r's and they are only going down in value also as mentioned earlier the 1199R is basically a mass produced bike and nothing like previous R's as it's not that special and does not differentiate itself enough from the base or the S even if it is great value.

You can't go wrong with either bike, the 1098R is a more special bike whereas the 1199 has all the latest greatest technology but it's a step away from Ducati's of old.

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Seems like owners who have both will always ever so slightly sway towards the 1098r due to its "soulfulness" of the bike, and I can definitely understand why. Comparing my 916 and the 1199s, my 916 definitely had the soul and character, whereas the 1199s is a very very capable track weapon.

DUCKYMAR said:

As many have said, do you want raw or refined/electrics equipped? Go ride both, before you make your decision.

As far as cost goes, bang for the buck goes a long way. Compare the OTD prices. Although, the 1198R is the last of great torque monster motors, it still should be cheaper than a 1199R.

Personally, if I was going for the refined/electrics equipped route, I would buy the new 1299! My 1199S is a great bike, but I think the 1299 will be incrementally better in every way.

IMHO

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It's just this old school nagging thought that I have of the more electronics it has, the more prone to failures it will have, and mechanical stuff tend to last longer than electronic stuff. Am sure electronics are much better built nowadays, but just can't get it out from the corner of my brain.

But electronics definitely will save our ..... when we pushed past our limits. So contradicting!

outhouse said:

Hell keep the S and enjoy. For what your doing it Is perfect. No need to upgrade at all.

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Way more than perfect for what I am using it with.

It's always the "buy buy buy" symptoms!

To the first thread,if your meaning of technology is referring to electronics,they could be disabled, for a unadulterated raw ride.only your right hand is limiting yourself.

If you haven't, the Oem initiated 41t sprocket with accompanied map opt. upgrade, makes a huge diff to the mid range, not saying the 1199 is lacking,to be begin with.

Either bike it takes a career rider to really outride both...and asking for more where make every split seconds counts...

But if you could loan 1098r jus to have experience on,no harm loaning if that is a possible route...

they are all great bikes - but to date, if you can grab an 1199r at a discount and be happy to live without the dqs up/down, then grab it ---- (for me at least) going backwards in time (916, etc) with ducati just isn't as much fun as going forward...quickshifter, engine breaking control, slipper clutch.....come on, does it get even better ?

First, to anybody - coming from any bike - contemplating to buy a Ducati superbike, I would steer you towards the Panigale.

Next, in answer to the OP's question, allow me eliminate the 1199R right here.

The 1098R was a "WSBK bike with lights" that 2007 money could buy.
The 1199R (with all due respect) is what exactly? World super stock at best?
Apples and oranges?

The true successor to the 1098R - again, in my opinion - is the 1199 Superleggera. And if that's the question to answer - to choose between the 1098R and a Superleggera - I'd still probably pick the R.

Where the beautiful 1x98 is a timeless evolution of the gorgeous 916...
the 1x99 is an evolution of the 999 - and good and bad in many of the same ways.
The 1x99 is "the latest and greatest and maybe even the prettiest" TODAY - in the same way the 999 shun Yesterday (before the 1x98 was launched).

But what will you think of the Panigale after Ducati launches the next generation superbike? and the generation after that?
Sorry, would you look twice at a 999 today?
Wouldn't you look at a 916 TEN times and still wanna look again?

I had an 1198s for 3 years and 30,000km and traded her in for an 1199s, which I've put 5,000km on so far. Both bikes were ridden on road and track. Granted, they are not the supreme versions of their generations which you are debating between... but, for the sake of humble comparison, they will have to do.

The 1x99 turns considerably faster, feels (and is) substantially lighter, much more comfortable (if that's even relevant) to live with compared to the 1x98 - especially that the handle bars are closer (for a smaller rider anyway).
Provided you adapt to the 1x99's 2-stroke-like-nature and train yourself to ride it that way, the Panigale is in a world of its own in terms of out-the-box geometry, brakes, ergonomics, design and power. You already have the Panigale S so you know already.
Both, with the electronics turned on and off (as they can be fully turned off), the 1x99 is a much EASIER (nowhere near Honda/BMW easy) bike to ride - no matter "where" you are riding it. These are some of the reasons I'd use to convince someone to buy the 1x99 if they were in the market to buy "a superbike."

On the other hand...

where the 1x99 has power (up top), the 1x98 has TORQUE EVERYWHERE! it will wheelie, mid-corner, in 3rd gear.

where the 1x99 flatters you with ergonomics/nimbleness, the 1x98 has CHARACTER and a living SOUL.

where the 1x99 has 3 riding modes and state-of-the-art frameless-design, the 1x98 has 1 throttle map that redefines the word perfect in the dictionary AND a trellis frame.

I bought the 1199 for the same reason I will buy the 1299, and god willing, the next Ducati superbike, and the one after that: because I love Ducati superbikes. I love their personalities.

But if I were to choose just one of two flagship models, I'd want the most raw, pure and soulful of the two. I want the one with more Ducati character. I'd pick the Ducati tractor.

To answer the question, I would buy the last traditional Ducati suprebike, the 1098R

Titaniumvalves said:

To the first thread,if your meaning of technology is referring to electronics,they could be disabled, for a unadulterated raw ride.only your right hand is limiting yourself.

If you haven't, the Oem initiated 41t sprocket with accompanied map opt. upgrade, makes a huge diff to the mid range, not saying the 1199 is lacking,to be begin with.

Either bike it takes a career rider to really outride both...and asking for more where make every split seconds counts...

But if you could loan 1098r jus to have experience on,no harm loaning if that is a possible route...

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Its more of having a mechanical bike to reduce the chances of electronics failure, than about turning off the electronics. I will most likely have a hard time handling it when all aids are turned off. I am probably thinking in the direction of keeping the bike for long (I said that to myself every time i change bikes..har!)

Not possible to loan the 1098R. Bikes prices and insurance restrictions where I am are ridiculous.

Tfk said:

the 1x99 is an evolution of the 999 - and good and bad in many of the same ways.

Wouldn't you look at a 916 TEN times and still wanna look again?

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How on earth is the 1199 an evolution of the 999? The 1199 is it's own bike - new frame concept, new engine, new electronics. It seems to me you want to compare the 1199 to the 999 to further your opinion that the 1198 is better than the 1199. That's a bit disingenuous.

The 1098R shared almost nothing of significance with the WSBK machine of it's day.

I'm missing a ton here, but to turn a 1098R into a WSBK machine required:

-Different frame
-Swingarm
-Suspension
-Electronics
-Cams
-Crank
-Pistons
-Massive amounts of headwork
-Gearbox
-Internal gears
-cases
-Bodywork/airbox/runners
-All controls
-Fuel tank
-Tailsection
-Exhaust
-Brakes
-Wheels

So basically a whole new bike with a 1098R sticker on it. Next years "R" on the other hand is a lot closer from an engine standpoint at least.

Keep the S, apply the savings to track coaching/schools and more seat time. Have fun and be safe.