Back to basics or embrace technology

ghostdog6 said:

How on earth is the 1199 an evolution of the 999? The 1199 is it's own bike - new frame concept, new engine, new electronics. It seems to me you want to compare the 1199 to the 999 to further your opinion that the 1198 is better than the 1199. That's a bit disingenuous.

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English isn't my first language and evolution was the wrong word to use, my bad.

I agree, the 1199 is its own bike but the opinion I was trying to express is that the 1199 seems (to me) to be a great bike of it's time (now), in the same way that the 999 was also a great bike "in its time." Though I fear that like the 999, the Panigale will forfeit its crown in the not-so-far future (perhaps after the next generation Ducati superbike appears).

The 1x98 - in my opinion - was a great bike, is a great bike, and will always be a great bike, in the same way that the 916 was, is and probably always will be a masterpiece.

Sorry if my thoughts were lost in my words, I didn't mean to confuse anyone.

shakazulu12 said:

The 1098R shared almost nothing of significance with the WSBK machine of it's day.

I'm missing a ton here, but to turn a 1098R into a WSBK machine required:

-Different frame
-Swingarm
-Suspension
-Electronics
-Cams
-Crank
-Pistons
-Massive amounts of headwork
-Gearbox
-Internal gears
-cases
-Bodywork/airbox/runners
-All controls
-Fuel tank
-Tailsection
-Exhaust
-Brakes
-Wheels

So basically a whole new bike with a 1098R sticker on it. Next years "R" on the other hand is a lot closer from an engine standpoint at least.

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I stand corrected, thank you sir.

Pardon me for asking, but didn't Ducati take a base 1098 and throw a similar 'kitchen sink' of parts at it to make the 1098R?
I used the WSBK reference as a figure of speech - referring to Ducati's "spare no cost" approach in the endless effort that was to throw a near infinite number of components (many, of the ones posted in your list above amongst others) to make the R.

And I feel that they repeated this "spare-no-cost" exercise in making the Superleggera - much more so than with the current/upcoming Panigale R.
Needless to say, this is no more or less than my understanding and opinion.

Not a problem, I was curious why you could see the 1199 as a continuation of the 999. I think it's more in line with the 998 - 1098 lineage - just few people liked the way it looked. Pretty much the same formula as the 998-1098 though, just a different look. The 1199 is the start of a new direction for Ducati's superbikes, or it's a one-off bike and they'll revert to the torque-happy trellis framed bikes of old. We'll see what the direction is in the next few years.

ghostdog6 said:

Not a problem, I was curious why you could see the 1199 as a continuation of the 999. I think it's more in line with the 998 - 1098 lineage - just few people liked the way it looked. Pretty much the same formula as the 998-1098 though, just a different look. The 1199 is the start of a new direction for Ducati's superbikes, or it's a one-off bike and they'll revert to the torque-happy trellis framed bikes of old. We'll see what the direction is in the next few years.

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What makes me link the 999 and 1x99 is how far they both stepped out and away from "the norm" when first introduced.

The 999 with the double sided swingarm, stepped very far away from its predecessor, mainly, from a design stand-point (remember the headlights/instrument cluster/tail piece/etc; how "new" they were then, and how un-Ducati they are now) I think.

And then, to a greater extent, the 1x99 - as you kindly pointed out - "is the start of a new direction" (but more in terms of it having bravely lost the trellis, the belts, the dry clutch, and dare I say, the midrange torque).

Please don't get me wrong, I still think the Panigale is a phenomenal bike, I wouldn't have bought one if I didn't. But it does make me miss the Ducati superbike sounds of old, I miss not having forgiving engine brake control or a slipper clutch.

That said, if and whenever I complain about how awkward and "off" the iPhone 6 is, my friend always tells me that I'd never be able to go back the previous iPhone 5, in that it's too small and impractical.
I did go back and try my old phone, and I regret to report that my friend was right - it's difficult to go back to the small phone after getting used to the bigger one; which I'll admit, made me feel a little hypocritical to be honest.

I wish I could say the same about having ridden an 1198 after the 1199 again. NO. It was so refreshing to throw a leg over that torque tractor, so familiar, so analogue, so explosive, so raw! And it was this short 50km ride that contributed towards my trying to sway the OP to go 1098R over the 1199R or even the Superleggera.

I was amazed to find that the 1198 magic was still fully present, even after having subconsciously become accustomed to the Panigale. Well, everything about the tractor - minus her ergonomics (bars are a FAR stretch away) and lack of electronically adjustable compression/rebound settings - could still make me smile from ear to ear.

It would be very interesting, for lack of a better word, if Ducati does indeed revert. Not sure how that might add, or take... from the 1x99 in the next few years! Time will tell I guess..

Resisted the urge to trade the bike and gonna wait for 1299.

Gonna have on the bike till then! It's hard to let go of technology once you know how capable it is.

Happy New Year to you all! Ride Safe!

1098R would be an awesome addition to a collection, and would be immensely entertaining to fire up for an occasional track day. However, for track riding day after day, you will be much faster and safer on the 1x99. Plus parts are in production and readily available. I know you can get most parts for 1x98 still, but I would guess that working on or replacing a 1098R engine would be a staggering proposition.