Break-In Theory

I feel like over the years people have provided the most scientific explanations to me for, "high load, low rpm, multiple heat cycles" theory. You accomplish the "high load" by pulling up a long hill in 4th or 5th. The high load forces the rings to seat well.

I also plan to change my oil at 100, 300, and 600 miles. I may do the first one even sooner. I recently did a complete rebuild on an XR650R engine that has double the stock output. I dumped the oil after just the first heat cycle and the amount of metal that came with it was incredible. I got a few high load heat cycles in it with frequent oil changes and then raced it the next weekend. It's still going strong after a bunch of racing and thousands of street miles.

slickwill said:

I feel like over the years people have provided the most scientific explanations to me for, "high load, low rpm, multiple heat cycles" theory. You accomplish the "high load" by pulling up a long hill in 4th or 5th. The high load forces the rings to seat well.

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Actually this is exactly what the manual says not to do, at least early on, and I agree - the idea is to keep engine temps down during the early stages of break in (and not just watching a coolant temp gauge, too bad these bikes don't have an oil temp gauge from the factory), then progressively build heat and load into the motor over successive run in periods. Lugging up a hill in 5th is the worst thing you can do

I recently did a complete rebuild on an XR650R engine that has double the stock output. I dumped the oil after just the first heat cycle and the amount of metal that came with it was incredible.

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A home rebuild is apples and oranges from a factory built motor with precision tolerances. Agree oil needs to be changed early but if there is significant metal particulate there is a problem

This is why I prefer to buy new bikes

Blade Runner said:

What made you go from the BMW to the Ducati? I am looking at the Yamaha R1M, BMW S1000RR and the Ducati 1299S. Oh and possibly the Aprilla V4. This would be my 1st Ducati after many years of Kaw, Honda, Suzuki and Yamaha.

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I really liked the BMW and thought about getting the 2015, but I like to try new things and so thought about the Aprilia which I have ridden many times, but I knew I would miss the utterly berserk power of my S1000RR, plus the Aprilia is heavier than the BMW or so close that it makes no difference.

I loved the way the Panigale looked and have again, ridden many of them, but the 1199 just didn't have the midrange and the heat was a bit much.

The Yamaha seemed like a good choice, but as much as I have liked my many Japanese bikes, they lack a certain flair and drama.

Basically, it came down to trusting that the 1299 would be what I had always wanted.. Light, powerful, tons of midrange, great components, gorgeous, full of character.... It turned out to be better than the sum of the improvements over the 1199. I already love the hell out of this motorcycle.. One of my friends rode it this weekend and didn't like it... I knew ahead of time that it would just be too much for him and it was.

The Panigales in general are an expert level motorcycle... Yes they have electronic nannies, yes they have ABS, but quite frankly, you have to have a certain amount of talent and experience to really be able to get them to "work". Some motorcycles, you can jump on and get really comfortable pretty quickly.. The Panigale is not that way, you have to put time into getting to know it, it needs subtlety, patience and a lot of thought before you start to really get the best out of it.

A one day or two day test, isn't nearly enough to really give an opinion on it. I am on week 3 of owning mine and am close to 1,800 miles on it and I know it's going to take a lot longer to become an expert on it... My BMW was far easier to just jump on and ride well.

Cheers.

fzr100098 said:

Actually this is exactly what the manual says not to do, at least early on, and I agree - the idea is to keep engine temps down during the early stages of break in (and not just watching a coolant temp gauge, too bad these bikes don't have an oil temp gauge from the factory), then progressively build heat and load into the motor over successive run in periods. Lugging up a hill in 5th is the worst thing

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I disagree. It's essentially exactly what the manual says. It keeps the revs below the threshold. You vary the revs continually. There's a big difference between "lugging" the engine and keeping load on it. You just slowly pull up through the revs in the gears, if your hill is long enough you'll end up in 4th or 5th before it's all over.

fzr100098 said:

A home rebuild is apples and oranges from a factory built motor with precision tolerances. Agree oil needs to be changed early but if there is significant metal particulate there is a problem

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I'm a surgeon. They aren't spending any more time measuring tolerances than I am. No one is putting more care into my bike than I am.

I buy new Ducatis, don't have any problems with buying a used Honda. Ducati is getting better but they aren't there yet. I'll be sticking strictly to the prescribed rev limits on the Ducati so that they don't have any reason to deny my warranty claims. I hope it doesn't ever come to that but I plan on keeping the Duc for a long time so I bought the extended warranty. I've got 46K miles on one of my Hondas and it's never needed anything but oil.

I've been getting the first 600 miles done, first service is today.

I've taken it fairly easy and stuck to the limits so far with no real issues apart from frustration!

However, my dealer did say "the first 200 are the important ones" and said after that "progressively open it up. I have to admit that sounds fair enough. I haven't taken it much past 8k - 9k if I'm honest.

As the gentleman already said, I don't want to affect the warranty etc.

Can't be good for it either to only go to 6k then roll out of the dealers and go ooooh, service done lets hit 12k?!?!

slickwill said:

I disagree. It's essentially exactly what the manual says.

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p. 251: "Avoid harsh acceleration and do not run the engine at high rpm for an extended period of time, especially uphill"

You want to keep excessive heat out of the engine during initial break in

There's a big difference between "lugging" the engine and keeping load on it. You just slowly pull up through the revs in the gears, if your hill is long enough you'll end up in 4th or 5th before it's all over.

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I wouldn't do it. Load/unload, short burst acceleration in lower gears - what I've always been told by guys who have raced for years

slickwill said:

I buy new Ducatis, don't have any problems with buying a used Honda. Ducati is getting better but they aren't there yet.

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Agree - Honda are basically the kings of small engine manufacturing for the price point, my S2000 has been flawless. Those engines regularly see 200k+ miles, and the owners run them hard

fzr100098 said:

Agree - Honda are basically the kings of small engine manufacturing for the price point, my S2000 has been flawless. Those engines regularly see 200k+ miles, and the owners run them hard

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But your panigale has more torque than your S2000 though.


(I couldnt help it)

At the end of the day, no matter what somebody does, there is somebody else out there who does the complete opposite...and has gotten tens of thousands of miles out of their bike.

I have seen everything from guys redlining their bikes out of the dealership's parking lot, to guys buying a new bike and not changing the oil for 5,000 miles, so on and so forth. There are hard break-ins, race track break-ins, and the guys who baby them for 600 miles.

Hell just look at all of the different methods in this one thread on this one forum. Now imagine how many tens of thousands of bikes are sold across the country. Many of those to guys who don't frequent forums or do research, and just ride them however they want, often times with no maintenance at all.

In other words, just do what you want. Truth be told, 99% of these bikes are either crashed, stolen or sold long before reaching the appreciable lifespan of the motors...regardless of how they are broken in.

There should be a more scientific review with compression checks, but I've seen results of poor break in. In one case the bike was lugged down the freeway and used oil as a result. Aggressive "redline out of the parking lot" is subject to more debate, but unless it's a race engine that will be rebuilt at the end of the season I don't know anyone who recommends it

fzr100098 said:

There should be a more scientific review with compression checks, but I've seen results of poor break in. In one case the bike was lugged down the freeway and used oil as a result. Aggressive "redline out of the parking lot" is subject to more debate, but unless it's a race engine that will be rebuilt at the end of the season I don't know anyone who recommends it

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I think those are the 2 extremes (redlining out of the parking lot and not changing oil for 5k miles......and the other being lugging it down the interstate in 6th gear).

But in my experience, just about anything between those 2 extremes will be fine.

fzr100098 said:

p. 251: "Avoid harsh acceleration and do not run the engine at high rpm for an extended period of time, especially uphill"

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Their key there is, "harsh acceleration, high RPM and extended period of time." What I'm proposing (multiple engineers and engine builders) is completely different. You adhere to the 6K limit, but add gentle pulls uphill to increase the cylinder pressure a bit. It's similar to doing a low RPM dyno tune. One of the reasons that builders recommend the liwer RPM limits is that on average you'll see higher cylinder pressure at the low RPM because it loads the engine a bit more. I completely agree that temps are a key. That's a reason I don't like doing hard dyno break-in. It's easier to keep temps down on the street. We're not going to come to an agreement on this but I think it's mostly due to you not understanding what I'm up to. My break-in follows everything the book says, varying RPM, keeping heat down, RPM limits, but you also ensure that you're keeping cylinder pressures on the higher side.

Just yesterday I was sent a R&T article where BMW had a lot of oil consumption issues on their V8TT engine because owners never loaded it enough to get a proper break-in and the rings didn't seat. The Pani R has two ring pistons so you really want to ensure proper break-in and ring care on them.

Chaotic said:

I think those are the 2 extremes (redlining out of the parking lot and not changing oil for 5k miles......and the other being lugging it down the interstate in 6th gear).

But in my experience, just about anything between those 2 extremes will be fine.

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When it comes down to it, this is the best all around advice.

slickwill said:

When it comes down to it, this is the best all around advice.

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here..try this for best advice:

the owners manual, pages 256/57/58 -- simple enough, and is the advice of the builders, and goes quick enough...theories/hypothesis/ideas/everything else "foo-ghed-aboud-it" !


Break-in recommendations Maximum rpm
Rotation speed for Break-in period and during standard use (rpm):
1) Up to 621 mi (1000 km);
2) 621 mi (1000 km) to 1553 mi (2500 km).
Up to 621 mi (1000 km)
During the first 621 mi (1000 km) keep an eye on the rev counter, it should never exceed: 5,500 ÷ (included) 6,000 rpm.
During the first few hours of riding, it is advisable to run the engine at varying load and rpm, though still within recommended limit.
Strict observance of Break-in recommendations will ensure longer engine life and reduce the likelihood of overhauls and tune-ups.

Important
During the first 600 mi (1000 km) (Break-in period), i.e. as long as the Odometer displays a value lower than or equal to 600 mi (1000 km), the "orange area" (pre-warning area on the display with orange used for bar graph filling and to indicate the corresponding figure) is displayed when engine reaches 6000 rpm. During this break-in period, it is not advisable to exceed 6000 rpm, so make sure the instrument panel does not display the "orange area" of the bar graph.
To achieve this, roads with plenty of bends and even slightly hilly areas are ideal for the most efficient break-in of the engine, brakes and suspensions.
For the first 61 mi (100 km), use the brakes gently. Avoid sudden or prolonged braking. This will allow the friction material on the brake pads to bed in against the brake disks.
So that the mechanical parts of the motorcycle can adapt to each another, and especially so the life of the basic engine parts is not affected, avoid harsh accelerations and do not run the engine at a high rpm for an extended time, especially uphill.
It is also advisable to inspect the drive chain frequently and lubricate as required.

621 mi (1000 km) to 1553 mi (2500 km)
At this point, you can squeeze some more power out of your engine. However never exceed 7,000 rpm.

During the entire Break-in period, carefully observe the indications on the scheduled
maintenance chart and servicing recommendations in the Warranty Booklet.
Failure to follow these instructions releases Ducati Motor Holding S.p.A. from any liability whatsoever for any engine damage or shorter engine life.

Strict observance of Break-in recommendations will ensure longer engine life and reduce the likelihood of overhauls and tune-ups.

Is this dead horse thoroughly beaten now????

Stw said:

Is this dead horse thoroughly beaten now????

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should have been day 1

The manufacturer has to provide a very conservative guideline for broad base of users. A customer could buy the bike and go on a cross country road trip. 95% of break-in occurs well before 600 miles, mileage guidelines are a poor but necessary/default standard. I'm sure as hell not waiting 600 miles to take this thing to redline and 100% sure it have excellent compression

fzr100098 said:

The manufacturer has to provide a very conservative guideline for broad base of users. A customer could buy the bike and go on a cross country road trip. 95% of break-in occurs well before 600 miles, mileage guidelines are a poor but necessary/default standard. I'm sure as hell not waiting 600 miles to take this thing to redline and 100% sure it have excellent compression

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....lol's....."and so it goes"......

Ok Thread locked I think we have 'learned" all we are going to learn on this....