Creating a custom 1199

One of the great things about Ducati is the robust aftermarket parts for their motorcycles. With that in mind, I am contemplating creating a custom 1199.

I will start with a standard 1199.

The first question is, can I upgrade to the electronic Ohlins suspension?

Next, I want to swap the standard wheels for carbon fiber wheels. I know there are passionate opinions on CF wheels but all that I read leads me to believe the performance enhancement is worth the cost. Part of that cost, is the risk of catastrophic failure but I don't see myself pushing the limits of the wheels. I am 51 and all I seek is adrenaline from some other source than the financial markets.

These upgrades should cost, $5-6K bringing the cost just over an 1199S but I believe I will have better wheels and my DMV taxes will be lower.

Second question, will the CF wheels mess up the electronics, DucatiTraction Control ect?

I do not want ABS. I am not sure it is worth the extra 5lbs and I have never locked the front wheel. Then again, I don't race.

Lastly, I do want the titanium racing muffler from Ducati Performance to allow the engine to perform at its maximum. The Termignoni full exhaust system made such a difference on my Tricolore S4RS.

This should cost me around $3K.

What I will miss is the Tricolore paint job but then again I have $1-2K left for a custom paint job if wanted.

Am I crazy or is this doable?

Many thanks for your thoughts.

I think that many of the more experienced Ducati owners will be with you on this.

I'm not sure why you think BST's would interfere with DTC, can you tell us your thinking there?
I know there are plenty of current SBK's running carbon wheels.

I may go this rout too but in just a slightly different configuration, I want the Ohlins but not the DES.

I'm still on the fence on the Exhaust system, remember, the Ti system on the current SBK is E3 compliant complete with cats. If that's what we have here then I'll go another rout.

No-one has discussed the ECU. I'm guessing that the new bikes all have the siemans system and that MF'er has proven to be difficult for most shops to tune.
Will we have drivability issues like every other new bike from Ducati over the last 5 or 6 years and how will we tune it for an aftermarket exhaust system?

I know that all of the current performance exhaust/ECU's retain the closed loop o2 sensors and the inability to tune below 20% throttle.
I want to get around that problem with this bike as quickly as possible. But we will probably have to wait till the bike is actually in the hands of real owners -
The media seems to always gloss over these issues.

Subscribed to this thread... it's making me think second thoughts about getting an S now.

Duc I think it all depends on how you will use the bike.
If you are planning on 90% street use with just occasional track days then the S makes a lot of sense. In fact the DES may be just the ticket.

I think the Ohlins suspension (yes even the OE Ohlins) out-performs any other factory OE system offered.

I personally haven't been able to make a decision because I have so many questions still. Mostly questions that Dealer staff won't be able to answer.
So I wonder where to go to get those answers?

To add the DES system to a base will probably require a new loom, at least a new black box to control it and even a different dash as well, (you do on a MTS1200!)

If you want good but non-electronic fully adjustable suspension get some Ohlins FG R&T forks and fit them. A TTX will no doubt be in the performance catalogue soon I would think.

I was asked to supply a base model with a Tricolore paint scheme, only side panels and seat and nose to do as the tank is red on all I believe. Shouldn`t be too costly due to the relatively simple graphics used. Does look ultra cool tho!

BST`s or any other wheel shouldn`t affect DTC as long as the system works on wheel speed as the 1098r/1198 does.

You are about right on the cost of the full system and yes it will come as a complete package with dedicated ECU/Map upload to existing ECU as all have in the past. You may find that the o2 sensors are still fitted to the new pipework as the mapping may depend on them being there.

I will know more later in the week and let you know.

Hope this all helps and whichever way you go I can guarantee you will have an adrenalin rush every time you open the garage door.

flynbulldog said:

I think that many of the more experienced Ducati owners will be with you on this.

I'm not sure why you think BST's would interfere with DTC, can you tell us your thinking there?
I know there are plenty of current SBK's running carbon wheels.

I may go this rout too but in just a slightly different configuration, I want the Ohlins but not the DES.

I'm still on the fence on the Exhaust system, remember, the Ti system on the current SBK is E3 compliant complete with cats. If that's what we have here then I'll go another rout.

No-one has discussed the ECU. I'm guessing that the new bikes all have the siemans system and that MF'er has proven to be difficult for most shops to tune.
Will we have drivability issues like every other new bike from Ducati over the last 5 or 6 years and how will we tune it for an aftermarket exhaust system?

I know that all of the current performance exhaust/ECU's retain the closed loop o2 sensors and the inability to tune below 20% throttle.
I want to get around that problem with this bike as quickly as possible. But we will probably have to wait till the bike is actually in the hands of real owners -
The media seems to always gloss over these issues.

Click to expand...

Thanks for your thoughts and others that have followed.

My Custom 1199 has changed given everyone’s input but let me first answer why a CF wheel might affect the DTC.

On the Ducati 1198SP, if you change the tires from the standard Pirellis to Dunlops, which have a slightly different profile and react different under load, the DTC becomes confused. With CF wheels the lower rotational inertia and lower unsprung mass will change the way the tires grip. If the DTC requires changing the tire options to keep from being confused, I suspect it will need to have an option to change the wheels or the DTC may not work optimally.

I have not seen any whitepapers on the DTC, please provide a link if you have one, but I do advocate an open-source for the DTC to allow Ducati to keep up with the aftermarket improvements and to further their advantage over other manufacturers.

Now my shout-out for open source -

In other industries, using Apple as an example everyone knows, it is the platform/hardware that provides the competitive advantage amongst the manufactures. By allowing the thousands of talented contributors to provide better use of the platform through software these upgrades create the ultimate product that everyone wants. Ducati is in the business of making great motorcycles, let the great programmers write the ultimate software.

I imagine DTC specific software for each race track….talk about an advantage.

New and improved Custom 1199

It is revealing that the Ducati 1199 in Superstock Trim does not use electronic Ohlins. I don’t imagine why electronic is better than manual suspension unless you can enter your weight and riding preferences and the blackbox adjusts the suspension for you.

If any one can shed light on why electronic is better than manual please do so or maybe we should start a new thread.

I am looking for an aftermarket exhaust system to let the engine breath properly and to howl like only a Ducati can. As others have mentioned, the Race exhaust provided with the Tricolore uses O2 sensors. My experiences is low RPM riding becomes difficult with the O2 sensors as the engine becomes starved for oxygen. Let’s face it, if you want to ride an 1199 on the road there are times you will need to operate at low RPMs. On my Tricolore S4RS with O2 sensors the bike ran poorly at low RPMs and was a different bike with the Termignoni full exhaust.

Ok, maybe I am poser, but if I re-painted the bike I would strongly think about stripping the paint on the aluminum tank. Also, if I could I would want to anodize the aluminum tank and clear coat it to match the other anodized aftermarket parts I am sure I will buy.

I'm not a big fan of the DTC or the rate of change wheelie control Ducati denies exists.

But, the DTC does not become confused when a new tire profile is entered into the mix it simply operates under the new parameters.

If you are using DTC for track purposes it's as simple as readjusting the setting for the new tires just as you did the first time you set the level of DTC that works for you on any given track.

If you're randomly selecting a setting and hoping it will save you while street riding - may I suggest some track riding classes?


Lets look at what the DES does and does not do: first it does not automatically set preload adjustment for varied terrain, load, or riding conditions like the Multistrada does. On the 1199 that is still done manually.

What the new suspension does is set rebound and compression damping. Honestly, I'm not sure how varying these two settings is an advantage in different situations.
I've always set them up at the optimum level for my weight and the preload of the springs and left them there.

I can't see how those settings will change much between street, race, and rain, and because of this I wouldn't know the first thing about how to program this device for my weight and riding style.

How many people do you know that can adjust damping characteristics on their bike for specific uses? How many actually change the damping when they do a track-day and then back the next day for street riding?

Maybe it is significant and Ducati is going to educate us. You've all been to the dealerships, do you think that will happen? (I had a pre-delivery tech tell me that a DDA could adjust my ECU )

Is it worth the added complexity and the diminished home serviceability? Maybe someday in the future it will be, but right now with all of this being new and untested I'd rather have the best suspension available without the hats and horns.

Again thanks for all the great advice.

Latest Custom 1199 is:

Standard 1199
Manual Ohlins like the Superstock
BST Carbon Wheels

Still need a suggestion for an after market exhaust

I am curious how the LED headlights compare to HIDs

Would like clear aluminum tank like the Superstock or better yet an anodized clearcoated tank with a custom paint job for the fairing.

from what I am hearing the std 1199 comes with the 50mm Marzocchi forks that use aluminum inner legs and gas charged internals! this is a first for a production bike.. good chance they may have inserted gas-charged Ohlins internals.. I think a rear TTX and you would be good to go in the suspension arena

flynbulldog said:

Duc I think it all depends on how you will use the bike.
If you are planning on 90% street use with just occasional track days then the S makes a lot of sense. In fact the DES may be just the ticket.

I think the Ohlins suspension (yes even the OE Ohlins) out-performs any other factory OE system offered.

I personally haven't been able to make a decision because I have so many questions still. Mostly questions that Dealer staff won't be able to answer.
So I wonder where to go to get those answers?

Click to expand...

Marzocchi does make some tasty bits:

Dave R said:

from what I am hearing the std 1199 comes with the 50mm Marzocchi forks that use aluminum inner legs and gas charged internals! this is a first for a production bike.. good chance they may have inserted gas-charged Ohlins internals.. I think a rear TTX and you would be good to go in the suspension arena

Click to expand...

From what I have read, the 1199 might have a slight edge in that it uses the lightest fork in production: the all-aluminum Tenneco-Marzocchi RAC 50 Light. The hard-anodized aluminum sliders and forks feature full adjustability (spring pre-load, compression and rebound damping), and due to the design shave an additional 2.2 lbs. off the 1199 Panigale.

Might just need a rear Ohlins TTX, however those red Marzocchi Flynnbulldog showed a photo of are sweet...

Lightest Custom 1199

The dry weight of the Standard 1199 is 361.5lbs compared to the S version which is 367lbs, not sure if that weight gain is the ABS on the S version or the ABS adds another 5.5lbs.

What I do know is CF wheels will shave close to 10lbs vs the standard cast wheels.

A dry weight approaching 350lbs is something to get exited about with a .55 hp/lbs or 1.79 lbs/hp ratio.

Once more is know about an aftermarket titanium exhaust system the weight of the Custom 1199 should be shed even more.

I am more and more confident the Standard is the way to go and leave all the bells and whistles that add weight for those that want them.

All I need now is to figure out a custom paint job. Would it be sacrilegious to duplicate the Tricolore paint job?

Ideally, I hope an aftermarket CF fairing is offered that can be partially painted.

flynbulldog said:

What the new suspension does is set rebound and compression damping. Honestly, I'm not sure how varying these two settings is an advantage in different situations.
I've always set them up at the optimum level for my weight and the preload of the springs and left them there.

I can't see how those settings will change much between street, race, and rain, and because of this I wouldn't know the first thing about how to program this device for my weight and riding style.

How many people do you know that can adjust damping characteristics on their bike for specific uses? How many actually change the damping when they do a track-day and then back the next day for street riding?

Is it worth the added complexity and the diminished home serviceability? Maybe someday in the future it will be, but right now with all of this being new and untested I'd rather have the best suspension available without the hats and horns.

Click to expand...

I agree with you 100%. I've always had someone set up my suspension (on my bikes) for me and only tweak it minimally. The awesome thing about DES would be that switching from street to race and back again would 1) be far easier to do and 2) instead of having to depend on one guy you know/trust to tweak your settings, you'd have an entire user community to establish 'failsafe' settings and just be able to upload 'em with only minor changes due to weight differences. (Think tuneboy map sharing, etc.) Am I naive in assuming it would be this easy?

AntiHero said:

I agree with you 100%. I've always had someone set up my suspension (on my bikes) for me and only tweak it minimally. The awesome thing about DES would be that switching from street to race and back again would 1) be far easier to do and 2) instead of having to depend on one guy you know/trust to tweak your settings, you'd have an entire user community to establish 'failsafe' settings and just be able to upload 'em with only minor changes due to weight differences. (Think tuneboy map sharing, etc.) Am I naive in assuming it would be this easy?

Click to expand...

I think you may be wrong about how the settings are entered into the system. There are no "maps" that can be uploaded or downloaded.
Settings are entered into the system manually through the dash. I don't think they can be copied and shared.

Honestly, it's easier to just get out a screwdriver and turn an adjuster a few clicks during the setup phase.
The real benefit comes after the setup; instantly switching between the different modes once they have been set.

But how do you make the initial adjustments? Do you need more or less damping for rain? Rebound? sport riding? Hell, I'm confused just asking the question!

All of the settings are dependent on each other along with spring rate and preload and even riding style.
Are we supposed to just use the standard setting setup for an average weight and riding style? We all know that won't be optimal.
If that's the case then what's the point? The settings from the factory aren't going to do the job for most riders anyway.

It'll be interesting to see if there is a procedure in the manual for calibrating all of the settings to each new owner.

Personally, I see DES as just wizzbang glitter.
If you're good enough to understand this stuff and make a real difference then you're going to change the settings to suite each new environment (track).
That means a preset is not going to cut it; you'll have to test and adjust each time your environment changes.

I suppose that's why the Corse bike has manual adjusters on the Ohlins suspension.

Well I figured I was probably being a little over-enthusiastic about the uploading / sharing files, but seeing as though the ecu changes it with the different modes, I figured it might be possible (a hack to change suspension settings under braking I suppose would be asking way, way, too much, eh?). Entering all the info into the dash is probably more of a pain than just twisting adjusters. I hope it's not just a useless gizmo and that Ducati has opened the door to the future possibility of active handling with DES.

I'm a big fan of the 'one size fits all' setups, provided the person providing the setup knows what he's doing (Catalyst Reaction, for instance). Though I can acceptably tune a car's suspension for the track, I am completely clueless when it comes to figuring out if I need more rebound or low speed compression in the back vs. the front.

AntiHero said:

Though I can acceptably tune a car's suspension for the track, I am completely clueless when it comes to figuring out if I need more rebound or low speed compression in the back vs. the front.

Click to expand...

Exactly, I'd say that most of us are in the same boat - even the pros need a suspension specialist to figure out what the bike is doing and make the correct adjustments.

Don't get me wrong. I'm all for a system that will give me a firm, stable, rock steady ride that won't dive under braking for the track, and with the flip of a switch a comfortable smooth ride home on the highway that won't jar me to the bone with every seam in the road. And if it starts raining another selection affords a safe forgiving suspension that will keep me out of trouble.

The question is; can a simple rebound and compression adjustment do those things? I doubt it, but if someone can show me that it does I'm ready to embrace it wholeheartedly.

Active handling suspension? Wow, not yet but I think you're on the right track. I can see that happening in the furture.

Very interesting thread. Thanks for the insights Tricolore and flynbulldog. I thought I had my mind made up till I read this thread. Thanks again.

512BB said:

Very interesting thread. Thanks for the insights Tricolore and flynbulldog. I thought I had my mind made up till I read this thread. Thanks again.

Click to expand...

Be warned 512, I'm pretty good at dishing up food for thought but I rarely take my own advice.

I just put a deposit on a tricolore

flynbulldog said:

Be warned 512, I'm pretty good at dishing up food for thought but I rarely take my own advice.

I just put a deposit on a tricolore

Click to expand...

well done bloke...i've also got a deposit down on a tri, i'm just not sure i can sell my 1098r to get one. And also pay the 43 grand it;ll cost me in oz land