Cycle World 0-180 mph

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The biggest issue is aerodynamics. Contrary to popular belief, bikes aren't very aerodynamic. And drag increases exponentially as you get faster. That is why it takes a HUGE jump in HP (with the same aerodynamics) to go from say 190mph to 210mph.

And that is also why 600cc bikes can't reach redline in 6th gear. The top speeds listed for 600hp bikes are all theoretical; they can't actually reach those speeds because they don't have enough HP to reach redline in 6th. That is why you can go +1, +2 rear and sometimes even -1 on the front sprocket and not lose any top speed. The bike couldn't utilize the extra RPMs up top anyway.

That is why I always find it comical when guys go on about how they hit 165-170mph and .... like that on their stock 600. No, you didn't.

There has only been one test where a 600cc was able to reach a true 160mph off the showroom floor, and that was an R6. And the conditions were perfect. Typically speaking, a 600cc bike will top out around 152-155mph.
 
Chaotic said:
The biggest issue is aerodynamics. Contrary to popular belief, bikes aren't very aerodynamic. And drag increases exponentially as you get faster. That is why it takes a HUGE jump in HP (with the same aerodynamics) to go from say 190mph to 210mph.

And that is also why 600cc bikes can't reach redline in 6th gear. The top speeds listed for 600hp bikes are all theoretical; they can't actually reach those speeds because they don't have enough HP to reach redline in 6th. That is why you can go +1, +2 rear and sometimes even -1 on the front sprocket and not lose any top speed. The bike couldn't utilize the extra RPMs up top anyway.

That is why I always find it comical when guys go on about how they hit 165-170mph and .... like that on their stock 600. No, you didn't.

There has only been one test where a 600cc was able to reach a true 160mph off the showroom floor, and that was an R6. And the conditions were perfect. Typically speaking, a 600cc bike will top out around 152-155mph.
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Exactly. There are two things that most men will lie about, and how fast they have gone is one of them. I also realize that out motorcycle speedometers are off by a lot. I've run several of my bikes agains GPS to see the difference. I actually need to do that on my 1199. In the meantime if the subject ever comes up I tell people how fast I've seen on the speedo but admit it's not real. Two of may bikes have been off by 10 mph at top speed.
 
jjsC6 said:
Exactly. There are two things that most men will lie about, and how fast they have gone is one of them. I also realize that out motorcycle speedometers are off by a lot. I've run several of my bikes agains GPS to see the difference. I actually need to do that on my 1199. In the meantime if the subject ever comes up I tell people how fast I've seen on the speedo but admit it's not real. Two of may bikes have been off by 10 mph at top speed.
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On top of any "error" that may exist in the bike's measurement of speed, the value reported on the dashboard is deliberately increased by 5% for the 1199/1299.
 
Lightning said:
On top of any "error" that may exist in the bike's measurement of speed, the value reported on the dashboard is deliberately increased by 5% for the 1199/1299.
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According to GPS my dash is off by a full 10% all the way to 100mph. I haven't had GPS running any faster than that.
 
we have to accept that top end power is not the thing of ourbikes. that is all. there is no conspiracy thing going on here
 
desmodromic system said:
we have to accept that top end power is not the thing of ourbikes. that is all. there is no conspiracy thing going on here
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Peak horsepower is still peak horsepower. Look at the peak horsepower of the 1299 vs the R1. The RPM of the peak horsepower is not the issue as long as the bike is geared correctly.
 
Just did my own speedo test using app on IPhone in area with full 4LTE reception and with Garmin GPS. My front tyre is half worn with 31 psi cold pressure there is a slight delay GPS to speedo readings but I tried many different steady speeds and the error is nowhere near a great as others have subjected or observed

30 mph -1
80 -3
170 -6

Speedo screen goes blank @ > 186 still 1000rpm left to rev limiter, my guess is that 186 = 178 mph which allowing for additional 1000rpm = 194 which is only 2 mph off what the Autosport YouTube recorded with an SL speed limited to gearing not aerodynamic resistance
 
jjsC6 said:
Peak horsepower is still peak horsepower. Look at the peak horsepower of the 1299 vs the R1. The RPM of the peak horsepower is not the issue as long as the bike is geared correctly.
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Higher revs = shorter gearing = more force being applied to the tire. Twin is always going to be at a disadvantage up top like that.
 
shakazulu12 said:
Higher revs = shorter gearing = more force being applied to the tire. Twin is always going to be at a disadvantage up top like that.
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I'm sure you are familiar with the term "rear wheel horsepower". How do you explain that away?
 
Pretty easy, because I know how dynos work:D. Look at a thrust chart sometime.

Here, I'll even help with this handy chart.........

Rck3mAr.jpg
 
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All I know is my R screams right up to the 186 mph + blank screen doesn't seem like like any let up in acceleration until it peaks @ 12k in 6th against the rev limiter being 5'8 150 lbs I'm not concerned about racing a IL4
 
sean999r said:
All I know is my R screams right up to the 186 mph + blank screen doesn't seem like like any let up in acceleration until it peaks @ 12k in 6th against the rev limiter being 5'8 150 lbs I'm not concerned about racing a IL4
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do we know what that speed is? Any gearing gurus here, want to tell us what the "R" is doing at 12,000 rpm?
 
shakazulu12 said:
Pretty easy, because I know how dynos work:D. Look at a thrust chart sometime.

Here, I'll even help with this handy chart.........
Click to expand...

Okay, so I studied that chart and even found the magazine article that you pulled it from. What the article basically says is that the thrust is a factor of the bikes power combined with gearing. Now, go back and look at what I said in post number 46. DOH!

Having never seen or heard of a "thrust chart" before your post, that is exactly what I said in post 46....if it's geared correctly!
 
Ok, so try and stay with me here.........If I can run 2,000 extra RPM's, I can shorten the gearing and generate more thrust for a given speed. So take two separate 200hp bikes, give them the same aero and just change the rev limit/gearing and the one with the higher limit will have an easier time overcoming drag. The bike with the lower rev limit with always be at a disadvantage.

In other words, you still haven't shown why my statement was incorrect. Feel free to educate me, I try and learn something new every day.
 
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To get max top speed you have to get the last gear to max out right after the sweet spot of the bikes power output. Geared too high, it'll lag and lose a few mph, geared too low, it'll hit the rev limit. But often, the engines max output is at a lower RPM than redline, and gearing too low will cost you speed.

Aaaaaand, where the 5-6th shift occurs can effect the top end as well. Like trying to carry speed downhill on a bicycle to make the coming uphill easier.

Simple weather changes can also have a drastic effect on a marginal engine like a little V2.

It's not as easy as it sounds. And it sounds like Cycle World had an F'd up setup or something. I don't expect the 1199/1299 to get to 180 as well as the BMW, but it should be alot closer than this test shows.
 
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If Gearing Commander is to be believed, the 2015 R will hit 196 mph at 12,000 rpm and if the 1299S could pull redline at 11,500 rpm, it would hit 199 mph, so, the 1299 is geared to the moon.

That would seem to me to be the reason the 1299 fell flat at the top. Given a full exhaust system, free flowing filter and a good tune/RapidBike/Power Commander, I wonder what it would pull?

I may have to find a speed event over a mile and a half and find out.

Cheers.
 
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shakazulu12 said:
Higher revs = shorter gearing = more force being applied to the tire. Twin is always going to be at a disadvantage up top like that.
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shakazulu12 said:
Ok, so try and stay with me here.........If I can run 2,000 extra RPM's, I can shorten the gearing and generate more thrust for a given speed. So take two separate 200hp bikes, give them the same aero and just change the rev limit/gearing and the one with the higher limit will have an easier time overcoming drag. The bike with the lower rev limit with always be at a disadvantage.

In other words, you still haven't shown why my statement was incorrect. Feel free to educate me, I try and learn something new every day.
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That is not correct. There is no direct relationship between thrust and gearing. The thrust is actually determined by the power divided by speed. If a bike is geared for maximum speed, then thrust will equal drag when power is a maximum (i.e. when the engine is at RPM for peak power). So, two 200Hp bikes, with gearing for maximum speed, will be able to achieve the same maximum speed regardless of whether one bike has a higher redline RPM.
 
shakazulu12 said:
Ok, so try and stay with me here.........If I can run 2,000 extra RPM's, I can shorten the gearing and generate more thrust for a given speed. So take two separate 200hp bikes, give them the same aero and just change the rev limit/gearing and the one with the higher limit will have an easier time overcoming drag. The bike with the lower rev limit with always be at a disadvantage.

In other words, you still haven't shown why my statement was incorrect. Feel free to educate me, I try and learn something new every day.
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It would take more work than I'm willing on putting into it to try to prove that one of our theories is right and one is wrong. You haven't proved anything to me, and I haven't proved anything to you. But I don't for a second believe that the bike that turns more RPMs per your example above is always going to be the faster bike. I guess we'll just have to disagree on that.
 
Yup. Power isn't just related to RPM. Sometimes there's a "sweet spot" that makes no sense at all. Sometimes we have to go a hair less or more in RPM. Many engines don't make max power anywhere near redline, but they need to be run up to redline before shifting to the next gear, ootherwise they'll bog at too low of an RPM in the next gear.

So sometimes, top gear is a little tall to take advantage of the "sweet spot" that may be well under the redline. More testing is needed. The 1199 shouldn't be that much slower than the rest. But I don't expect it ever to Beat the I4's.

Personally I think the Superquadro's gears are spaced nicely, it's just fine tuning the chain and sprockets to get it where it needs to be.
 

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