DDA+ and GPS

doctorb said:

Since your friend wrote a converter from dda --> csv, he or she probably knows (or had to find out) the coding for the relevant info on the V4 Ducati Can-Bus.
...it could potentially mean the following: ...the perfect low-budget laptimer PLUS a completely open architecture for any post-processing you could want!
Can you and your friend help us all with this?

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Burls121 said:

The problem is that some rules have been broken as I understand it for him to make this software and he doesn’t want Prosa coming after him. (I am happy to convert files people email me)

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@doctorb are we 'in sync' that:

éven íf @Burls121 his coding friend - like the other 3 converters - understands the file-structure of CANbus and in particular the subset of PiD's as part of the proprietary DMH channels Prosa was allowed to add to their DDA+ solution:



...this still requirers Prosa's DDA+ hardware ánd Prosa's software combo to get the by DMH selected CAN/PID channel-data out of our Panigales, now does it?

Consequently, via any of these 4 existing *.dda filetype converters -as discussed in this thread- we are 'DiY' able to use the DDA+ PiD channels as telemetry overlays in movie content creation tools.

What you suggest here is that 3rd party hardware/ services, like OBDlink, directly connects to the DMH part of the CANbus and can access the DMH PiD's in realtime themselves!?

This requires, besides understanding and just converting already exported PiD's as part of DDA+ files, to do the same (and more!) in firmware, directly interface with the bike and access these proprietary PiD channels(1) themselves.
For example, the current OBDlink firmware is able to interface with the V4 its CANbus and ONLY access the standard emission related CANbus PID's in realtime.

IMHO if DMH is already reluctant to enable the *.csv export function in the DDA Graphic Analyser software, Prosa's developer Marco is referring to, DMH will most likely NEVER allow 3rd party hardware to access this DMH copyrighted part of the CANbus directly, now will they?

Besides, sadly not ALL the DMH PiD channels on the Panigale CANbus are available through DDA+.
We want all CANbus PID's relevant to racers: i.e. leanangle (gyro-sensor), gas, brake, speed, RPM, distance, g-force, GPS (lat/lon/alt), oil-/engine-temp, tire-temp/-pressure, ABS, DSC, DWC, DPL, DQS (Gear pos.), EBC, DES and last but not least DTC!

You have much more technical understanding than I do, RdashP.

My assumption was, that in a csv format, one should be able to read in clear text the definition of the channels that the DDA+ reads off the V4's Can-Bus.
But of course only those.

And RaceChrono permits for custom channels to be defined for an ODBII-compatible interface.
And probably by setting exactly those definitions?
So my hope is that the "Prosa" channels can be fed into RC at real-time.

For me it would be nice to have a live lean-angle display .... I have a tendency to enjoy leaning in too much ;-)
Another advantage would be that for data overlays, one won't have to deal with separate files from separate sources that need to be joined and synchronised but rather with only one export from RC (or even just use RC for doing that).

And of course this would forego DDA+/Prosa completely. One would need a phone, RaceChrono (or HLT), a BTLE GPS device mounted at personal discretion ;-) and a BTLE-functional ODBII dongle + adapter.
Beyond the flexibility and open structure, you can easily take this from bike to bike ...

(As you I believe have pointed out elsewhere on this forum, AIM also can access a whole range of these data by Can-Bus cable. I don't believe they have a sacred agreement with Ducati, since they compete with DDA/Prosa. The Starlane Corsaro Logger also can read a few parameters via cable + extra interface)

@doctorb As your 1st RC picture explains: finding, understanding, selecting, deciphering and then configuring the bike specific DMH PiDs in RC, is a way forward.

If deciphering turns out to be decrypting, this could indeed be a copyright infringement @Burls121 is referring to, not making Prosa/DMH too ‘happy’ if anybody would start sharing or even selling this know-how.

Nevertheless very interesting that RC is explaining this in general terms in this FAQ without -of course- providing the required technical details nor offering this themselves as add-on.
Yet the potential for getting all DMH PiDs per bike-type, we racers soo much desire, indeed seems to be supported in RC together with (just) OBDlink as interface for anybody to try DiY ‘trial & error’ w.o. RC support. Still this is a good thing!

In the meantime, I just stick with combining DDA+, my 20hz VBox and will post-race use 1 of 4 dda2csv converters to integrate all my session-data in a movie to learn from, like @Burls121 and many more do too.

Besides, during on track racing I’ll be using the VBox Laptimer iOS app which looks very similar as the RC app displays it. RC additionally promises live external source integration like GoPro video, OBD2 dongles ánd external GNSS integration as well. Similar to HLT.

In my experience, when racing, you only have an attention span for quickly glancing your lap-time and +/- seconds compared to your fastest lap. Anything more displayed is ‘information overload’, let alone if app requires even more attention or worse, even crashes (as HLT did to me during past track days) this quickly becomes outright dangerous!
During racing, any device/app shouldn’t require any more attention then minimally required: KISS! Any fancy data source integration is something to worry about when back on the paddock.

Nevertheless, I’m still hoping DMH-Prosa soon steps up their DDA to the next level of telemetry functionality, including opening it up for universal export for all above mentioned desired PiDs...

all good points!

FYI now that there doesn't seem to be an online dda2csv converter available for V4, I'm trying to create one myself.
Logging my process here: DDA+ File gesucht, da ich einen DDA+ zu CSV converter schreibe

yes!

RdashP said:

...Therefore I opted for this setup in the front right on top of the dashboard where the DDA+ sat receiver has a 2nd install option:

With a proper 5-10 minutes initialisation -at least once- in the morning at start of track-day of both DDA+ sat receiver (tail) and VBox (upfront) both should be good to go for clean racing-line track recordings.

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FYI sadly, this frontal setup with my 'GPS only' 20Hz VBox Sport as shown in this picture, didn't work out on track.

Even after long LOS initialisation prior to my track sessions, GPS reception was frequently lost.
Resulting in inconsistent logged race-lines going 'all over the place', as I found out during analysis in Racelogic's Circuit Tools software.
I must say that during that trackday on TT Assen we also had mild to heavy overcast, which is also not helping best possible LOS GNSS reception.

When, after a few practice sessions, I strapped the VBox (still in its leather pouch) 'stacked' right on top(!) of the circuit transponder already sitting on the V4's tail (i.e. like MotoGP and as I did on my previous Daytona track-bike), this way now even overshadowing(!) the DDA+ GNSS receiver installed underneath in the V4's tail, satellite reception of both 20Hz VBox ánd underlying 10Hz DDA+ patch-antennas was fine, as both the Racelogic- and DDA data analyzer software show.

Fazit: even though you cán also mount the DDA+ GNSS receiver in the nose (just a little further away from the rider then I did, refer to same picture), with my ill-experience I doubt if installation of GNSS receivers in the nose of bikes in reality is on par with installation of these patch-antennas in the tail. It can't be a coincidence that all MotoGP bikes seem to have them installed on top of their race-bike's tail, as clearly shown here: DDA+ and GPS

Don't know if that helps anyone here, but my Pani V4 has the OEM street fairings and thus the little "trunk" compartment behind the seat.
I have managed to place my Qstarz GPS receiver on top of the transponder into this little compartment and both work absolutely fine like that

as long as it’s flashing u r good, it will take a few minutes to get the signal and will become solid then u are set

RdashP said:

FYI now that there doesn't seem to be an online dda2csv converter available for V4, I'm trying to create one myself.
Logging my process here: DDA+ File gesucht, da ich einen DDA+ zu CSV converter schreibe

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Guys, I will seize my dda2csv efforts for V4, since someone I got in contact with already pulled it off. As agreed, I will not undisclose nor share this knowhow. I’m sorry.
I can share the rewarding result:

Very nice!! I didn't see any DTC or DWC intervention though. Is DTC torque fast and DWC torque slow on the DDA?

looks great, RdashP! Would you mind dropping me a mail at [email protected]?
BTW, just returned from Mugello and hit "- - -" on my corse for the first time !!

@RdashP
Can you send me the converter for v4 DDA2csv?
Please. I will not share it anywhere.
[email protected]

aque0us said:

Very nice!! I didn't see any DTC or DWC intervention though. Is DTC torque fast and DWC torque slow on the DDA?

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because I’m too smooth on the V4s throttle? lol indeed both PiD channels are in DDA for V4

lol thanks

H.jin said:

@RdashP
Can you send me the converter for v4 DDA2csv?

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Sorry guys. Really I can’t. Once online no control.

Please do ask [email protected] to finally provide a similar dda2csv function through their official DDA software.

If enough of their DDA ‘enabled’ riders request this, may be Bologna finally understands that this actually could improve DDA+ sales (i.e. no need to buy similar 3rd party solution instead for any V4) ánd make their already existing data-savvy customers happier? #win-win

take care grtz

I emailed them, but of course you already know that there will be no action from Ducati. They've made their choice clear. I think in reality the people who want to export csv data will just keep looking and experimenting and eventually someone will make it possible and share it.

One thing I haven't tried yet; Upmap says it will record video on an iphone with data overlays. So I wonder if I rode with the Upmap T800 connected and recorded video, if that video could be exported and used as a telemetry source.

Hi JohninPT, the RaceChrono App with a connected 10 or 20 Hz GPS Receiver does that beautifully already. And supposedly, it also allows you to control and sync a GoPro

JohninPT said:

... in reality the people who want to export csv data will just keep looking and experimenting and eventually someone will make it possible and share it.

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I really want to shareware this dda2csv converter for V4 with y'all.
Yet more importantly, I don't want to bring my dev in a possible hairy situation, so I won't. Sorry.

Any active forum-member here, can occasionally send me his V4.dda file and I'm more than happy to convert it for them.