Evo tech radiator guards install on ‘23 Pani V4s tips?

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bp_SFV4 said:
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Someone said the fairings aren’t easy to take off and you said compared to what. Now you’re saying the exhaust is easy to install. - Compared to what?
It's all relative to experience. Once you have a Ducati for a while you gradually delve deeper. Doesn’t happen overnight.
 
I think the Panigale fairings are easy to take off. I then said there's nothing "particularly difficult" with the exhaust install, which is different from saying it's easy. Both can be done with simple hand tools. It's easy to find the instruction manual for exactly how to do the exhaust install from start to finish.

My first auto repair was to replace the clutch disk and pressure plate on a 1984 Toyota Corolla (my first car) after all of the shops around wanted a little more than half of what I paid for the car for the job. I went to Autozone bought the disk and pressure plate for less than $70 bucks. I can't remember if I replaced the throw-out bearing or not. I also bought a Hayes shop manual, torque wrench, and rented an alignment tool and had at it.

I'd say doing a desmo service is a much more complicated job as it requires special tools and alignment of various parts to pull it off. It's not insurmountable by any stretch. In this day and age with the information flow out there anything is possible. I'd shy away more from jobs where I'd have to dispose of a large amount of fluids or just can't physically lift things or tasks which would necessitate a floor lift as it's just something I don't have.

I don't want to age myself, but there's this weird thing I've noticed where people just can't rely on themselves to accomplish simple things. I guess the iPhone spoiled us as to how things should be easy to use and somehow an extended allen key combined with a telescopic magnet for the four upper to side fairing bolts is a headache.
 
Panigale exhausts are notoriously not as simple as an I4. Same with desmo service vs regular spring valve. The fairings are the same. Doable. But not simple compared to better thought out bikes.everything seems more involved.
 
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"Not simple" needs some left right limits as to what that really means. What's the yardstick as to easy vs. hard? I found the fairings on the Panigale, be it an 1199 or a V4, much easier than a Honda CBR600RR.
 
I can probably get the fairings off of my track Gixxer in under 60 seconds. There’s what, 22 screws, some of them a PITA to get to and worse to get a thread purchase when putting them back on for some of them.

After you’ve done it 20 times it’s easy because it becomes routine, but if you are just beginning to work on your 1st Panigale it’s definitely a PITA.
 
SuperDomestique said:
Panigale exhausts are notoriously not as simple as an I4. Same with desmo service vs regular spring valve. The fairings are the same. Doable. But not simple compared to better thought out bikes.everything seems more involved.
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You're talking V, be it a V2 or V4, to an I4. Exhaust replacement wasn't a factor in that design consideration. It's an odd argument you're making here. It's almost as to sacrifice performance as to ease of maintenance.
 
bp_SFV4 said:
I think the Panigale fairings are easy to take off. I then said there's nothing "particularly difficult" with the exhaust install
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To say there’s nothing particularly difficult with the exhaust install is a bit misleading. The individual tasks involved may be quite simple but there’s a lot to do and it’s a big job, primarily because there’s a lot packed into a tight space and a lot of the bike needs to be taken apart to gain sufficient access. I believe it’s ten hours by an experienced technician in a workshop? That seems like quite a big job, easier with more than one pair of hands and a monumental pain when there are more productive ways to spend a few days. Not particularly difficult though. ;)

There’s certainly nothing particularly difficult about installing an exhaust on my SportClassic, but for a V4 I’ll pay the workshop to do it.

Going back to the 916 fairings, I remember people popping them off in seconds and I was told that it had been designed like that because it’s a race bike and you should be able to get the fairings off and on again in next to no time. The V4 fairings would probably be better if they were a similar design to the race ones. If the front fairing enclosed the lights then the side fairings would probably be a lot simpler to remove? 🤷‍♂️
 
bp_SFV4 said:
I don't want to age myself, but there's this weird thing I've noticed where people just can't rely on themselves to accomplish simple things. I guess the iPhone spoiled us as to how things should be easy to use and somehow an extended allen key combined with a telescopic magnet for the four upper to side fairing bolts is a headache.
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So if you were designing the fairings you’d want at least a couple of screws tucked away so you can’t access them with a normal allen key? A little Easter egg for the iPhone generation? 🫣

The way the side fairings attach to the front, along with the rather fiddly inner fairings that you have to remove to access those screws, doesn’t really strike me as a great bit of design. The race bikes have different fairings and the side panels look much easier to remove, as you’d expect them to be.

It’s not spoiling people to make things easy to use - it’s good design.
 
Because you don't understand why an item was designed a certain way, with the features the designers needed to have, doesn't make it a bad design. I'm sure there's a very valid reason why there are two screws where they are. Extended allen keys aren't made of moon rocks, they are sold everywhere. That's just a matter of having the right tools to do the job. Not having the right tool will make things harder. Another example, a socket with a built in swivel for the manifold nuts.

I don't get the time equals difficulty argument either. Paying a shop to do an exhaust install is pissing money away. The two videos I saw which had Ducati techs smearing high temp RTV on the manifold gaskets taught me everything I needed to know about their work product.
 
bp_SFV4 said:
Because you don't understand why an item was designed a certain way, with the features the designers needed to have, doesn't make it a bad design. I'm sure there's a very valid reason why there are two screws where they are. Extended allen keys aren't made of moon rocks, they are sold everywhere. That's just a matter of having the right tools to do the job. Not having the right tool will make things harder. Another example, a socket with a built in swivel for the manifold nuts.

I don't get the time equals difficulty argument either. Paying a shop to do an exhaust install is pissing money away. The two videos I saw which had Ducati techs smearing high temp RTV on the manifold gaskets taught me everything I needed to know about their work product.
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If it actually does take them ten hours to do it, given that it’s not the first time and they know what they are doing, then it might well take me twice that long. Their charge for installing equated to me working for one or two hours. Installing it myself would be pissing money away… :rolleyes:

I agree about the quality of work done by ‘technicians’ these days though.

I fail to see the logic in having two screws there and one of them being less accessible than the other. You can argue that there’s a solid design benefit to this but I’m not sure you could say what the advantage or benefit might possibly be? It certainly doesn’t make it easier to remove the side fairings. When selling a bike that’s apparently meant for the track then being able to easily and quickly remove fairings and put them back on would seem like something that should be apparent in the design. 🤷‍♂️ Generally, I’d agree - it’s just removing some screws - but I think it could have been made a lot simpler, as it is on some of the race fairings with a one-piece front fairing, like the 916 had.
 
bp_SFV4 said:
Because you don't understand why an item was designed a certain way, with the features the designers needed to have, doesn't make it a bad design. I'm sure there's a very valid reason why there are two screws where they are. Extended allen keys aren't made of moon rocks, they are sold everywhere. That's just a matter of having the right tools to do the job. Not having the right tool will make things harder. Another example, a socket with a built in swivel for the manifold nuts.

I don't get the time equals difficulty argument either. Paying a shop to do an exhaust install is pissing money away. The two videos I saw which had Ducati techs smearing high temp RTV on the manifold gaskets taught me everything I needed to know about their work product.
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I actually don’t agree with almost all of that post. Literally anything can be done by anybody with enough time and patience in this age of readily accessible information. Including the Desmo service which would assume you would describe as more difficult?

Time actually does equate to difficulty when both DIY’ing these bikes and paying someone else to do the work…is it rocket science, no, is it difficult to spend 10 hours changing an exhaust or and 90 minutes removing the fairings the 1st time or 3 hours installing a radiator guard? Sure is, precisely because of the time unless you are a retiree with no children at home and perfectly organized garage and nothing else to spend your time on.

With regard design, a lot of the weird screws locations etc associated with the fairings seem to be about ascetics and not ease of operation.
 
Steven31371 said:
I actually don’t agree with almost all of that post. Literally anything can be done by anybody with enough time and patience in this age of readily accessible information. Including the Desmo service which would assume you would describe as more difficult?

Time actually does equate to difficulty when both DIY’ing these bikes and paying someone else to do the work…is it rocket science, no, is it difficult to spend 10 hours changing an exhaust or and 90 minutes removing the fairings the 1st time or 3 hours installing a radiator guard? Sure is, precisely because of the time unless you are a retiree with no children at home and perfectly organized garage and nothing else to spend your time on.

With regard design, a lot of the weird screws locations etc associated with the fairings seem to be about ascetics and not ease of operation.
Click to expand...

Time is an opportunity cost. There’s no Zen when working on this bike which is unfortunate… just a lot of head scratching on why they did it that way.
 
bp_SFV4 said:
I find it more fulfilling to do a job than to pay someone to do it. That satisfaction is well worth the time expense.
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Can be when you have time to just tinker around, but what about you have a track day in 2 days, a full schedule, and a new part to try on the bike this track day, and it SHOULD take 20 minutes or an hour but instead it’s an hour to 3 hours 😂😂😂
 
Not to mention time expense is also the cost of product knowledge gained. Understanding how certain things work or work together is a valuable tool.
 
Who's arguing?

I didn't build my house but I sure AF didn't pay another man to put in a backsplash.

All the prior talk about kids etc., have them help. They won't remember how many hours you put in at work to pay for the house or the bike but they will remember working on the house or bike with you.
 

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