FREE Suspension Setup advice from an expert

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Hi,

My medias are located on a Sinology. I use NFS to access the Sinology. In each folder, I have a eaDir which is a system folder of the NAS.
How can I hide them in COOD-E ?
 
RacerX you help has been invaluable, much appreciated. Earlier in the thread comments were made by a racer re sag being not used by race teams, but this is thread for the rest of us. I set the sag on my 1299 according to your advice and the difference was remarkable, particularly after the adjusting the free sag on the rear. I had an old copy of Race Tech's Motorcycle Suspension Bible which I dusted off as further reference, but nothing beats hands on bike specific info.
 
roadracerx said:
I laugh and walk away....

Race teams use chassis analysis software to set up bikes and those softwares DO take sag into account which is a by-product of preload on a spring.

Sag is a measurement designed to get the rider in the middle third of the stroke so the suspension can work at its best. When a rider wants something different from what the team decides is the "ideal" setup there is conflict because teams think their bike is awesome, right?!

Speed is a consequence of confidence. A rider builds confidence when the bike responds in an expected way. Not all riders want or need the same thing but setting sag, both bike and rider, ALWAYS works.

Why would Ohlins recommend one check and set sag if it didn't matter?

Why would Fox recommend the same on their mountain bike suspension if it didn't matter?

The reason is simple. These manufacturers want you to have a good experience with their products.

Race teams have access to tools the average Joe does not like MotoSpec or SusPact. Also race teams have experience gained from many tracks and riders and they have a window in which they know the bike will work. They are making an educated guess on what they consider to be a bike that will handle well based on those tools and their experience. Most of the time the math is correct and I will roll the bike out of the truck and not need to make any changes at the track, sometimes, however, a small change is needed that makes all the difference and I can tell you from personal experience that my ass and hands do feel things that the math doesn't explain.
Click to expand...

Makes sense to me bro.

Thanks. :)
 
Yes, I normally do those measurements several times. These figures are from my notes from last year, when the shock is back i'll start fresh and we'll see where we get then.
Thanks for the quick response.
 
To be sure, Roadracerx. When I understand you correctly you use the preloadadjusters to get your ridersag set (F=40mm en R=30mm) and then check the bikesag if that's in the ballparc and this tells you depending on the bikesag (F=25-30mm and R=12-15mm) if the springrates are OK?
 
@rikkie07 basically, but you have to know how to properly take measurements of the bike with no weight (off the ground), then the bike under its own weight (level on the ground) and then the bike with rider on the bike in a neutral position, once again level on the ground.

Bike sag is the difference between the first and second measurements.

Rider sag is the difference between the first and third measurements.

So just take your bike as is and make these measurements and report back....make sense?
 
Yes, I understand. When I have my shock back, I will do them again and let you know. Thanks man.
 
roadracerx said:
@rikkie07 basically, but you have to know how to properly take measurements of the bike with no weight (off the ground), then the bike under its own weight (level on the ground) and then the bike with rider on the bike in a neutral position, once again level on the ground.

Bike sag is the difference between the first and second measurements.

Rider sag is the difference between the first and third measurements.

So just take your bike as is and make these measurements and report back....make sense?
Click to expand...

What’s a good way to get a droop measurement (bike off the ground)? Other than lifting. One of those frame jacks?

Oh, I saw your Suter clutch install and review. Nice riding! [emoji106]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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If you have a frame jack sure. I always just leverage the bike on the kick stand and use a Slacker V4 to get the measurements. I've found the rear is a little tricky in that you can't lift it by the subframe since you will get inaccurate measurements. You are better off to lift it by the rearsets.
 
@Alkhater a front stand that lifts from under the triple clamp and peg stands - the goal is to get the weight off the suspension so it can hang feely.
 
bp_SFV4 said:
If you have a frame jack sure. I always just leverage the bike on the kick stand and use a Slacker V4 to get the measurements. I've found the rear is a little tricky in that you can't lift it by the subframe since you will get inaccurate measurements. You are better off to lift it by the rearsets.
Click to expand...

I have a slacker and just lift the rear or front leaning on the kick stand. I’d prefer not to do it this way but it only takes a second. Tilt and unload the suspension and reset the slacker to zero. Once you are back on the ground you have the bike sag.

Without a slacker you can not set the sag by yourself, you need a second person to measure once you unload the suspension.
 
AmpForE said:
I have a slacker and just lift the rear or front leaning on the kick stand. I’d prefer not to do it this way but it only takes a second. Tilt and unload the suspension and reset the slacker to zero. Once you are back on the ground you have the bike sag.

Without a slacker you can not set the sag by yourself, you need a second person to measure once you unload the suspension.
Click to expand...

I have the slacker tool but get inconsistent results using this method. I’ve tried it twice, first time my bike had less than 100 miles so the suspension presumably is silky smooth.

Ideally I’d like to find vertical droop.

Yes I’m quite anal lol. RC background will do that to you.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Alkhater said:
I have the slacker tool but get inconsistent results using this method. I’ve tried it twice, first time my bike had less than 100 miles so the suspension presumably is silky smooth.

Ideally I’d like to find vertical droop.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I’ve never had an issue and used this exact same method on my RSV4 and my Panigale.

But if you want to be certain and use a lift I can understand that. To do so your likely buying fixed rearsets, and a putbull triple tree stand or some kind of frame lift like an abba or bursig. Either way, your spending a few hundred dollars, which it why I unload the suspension using the side stand. Lol
 
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I already have the stands and find the kickstand is much easier.

With the virtual Remote app you can just hit Auto Zero, lift either the front or back and when you return it to a vertical position under its own weight you have static. I find that the static is very consistent but the rider can vary by a mm or two. Not that it matters. If you wanted to get really into the weeds, I read a guide (I think it was K-Tech or Race Tech's instructions) in which you would fully extend the suspension then measure sag when it returned, then collapse it as much as possible and measure the sag when it returned. The average of these two measurements is supposedly more accurate. I never noticed a difference when I just give it a little push down and let it return.

Before I had the slacker I measured the front static using a tape measure and a zip tie by myself. I needed someone else for the rear and the GF came in handy for that.
 
roadracerx said:
@rikkie07 so what is funny is the 2022 V4 swingarm pivot is now the same height as the 2019-2020 V4R as it comes stock.

Spring rate is determined by what your bike and rider sag are. Do you have that info? You can get the correct rider sag of 30 mm with two different springs but the bike sag will tell you if you have the correct spring. For example, if you measure and find that the bike sag is more than the recommended range of 12-15 mm then the spring is too soft and the opposite if that bike sag measurement is less than the recommended range.
Click to expand...

@roadracerx I thought I was getting my head around much of this, but I got confused by your post. Did you mean the opposite in your example? If a spring is too soft then to get proper rider sag you would have to crank up the preload, which would give you too little free sag. If the spring is too stiff, you would take out most/all of the preload to get the correct rider sag, which would give you too much free sag.

My OEM V2 rear spring is giving me 39 rider sag and 11 static sag. When I add more preload to get 30 rider sag, then I have almost no static sag. Isn't that spring too soft?

Thanks for your time with all of us. I installed a Ducabike adjustable link (to correct for chain adjustments and sprocket size changes) and will order the Kyle Racing ride height tool today.
 
bp_SFV4 said:
I already have the stands and find the kickstand is much easier.

With the virtual Remote app…/
Click to expand...

Ah yes. I don’t have the newest version that uses the app. Mine has the accessory display that straps to the handlebar, or where ever you find convenient, which makes it real easy to tilt and reset from the accessory display. This might be why I get consistent measurements.
 
It’s not about where you take the reading from. I’ve checked both the reader and the app.

If the movement is done slowly then the results are consistent, but if for example you yank your handle bars to get more extension you’ll notice a higher reading than usual.

Tilting the bike on the stand… your bike must be near 40 degrees angle at that point. Even with a freely moving suspension I doubt your getting full extension that way especially on the forks because they’re not pressurized.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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