Once you set the rider sag, recheck the bike sag. I think you need 10 to 15 mm of bike sag for the forks, and 7-12mm for the shock. You may have to look this up. if you can’t get the rider sag within limits while holding some bike sag, you need new springs.
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Once you set the rider sag, recheck the bike sag. I think you need 10 to 15 mm of bike sag for the forks, and 7-12mm for the shock. You may have to look this up. if you can’t get the rider sag within limits while holding some bike sag, you need new springs.
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Front bike (static) sag should be 25-30mm and rear bike (static) should be 10-15mm.
Rider sag should be 40mm front and 30mm rear.
If your rear bike (static) sag is say 0-5mm to get to 30mm rider, you need a stiffer spring.
If your rear bike (static) is at 10-15mm and your rear rider sag is only 15-20mm you need a softer spring. But your pace has a say in this. If you are a fast track rider, 20mm rear rider may be fine.
Rider sag should be 40mm front and 30mm rear.
If your rear bike (static) sag is say 0-5mm to get to 30mm rider, you need a stiffer spring.
If your rear bike (static) is at 10-15mm and your rear rider sag is only 15-20mm you need a softer spring. But your pace has a say in this. If you are a fast track rider, 20mm rear rider may be fine.
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@roadracerx Please help us understand. Every article I have read and my observations with my bike tell me that if I have to crank up the preload to get 30mm rider sag on the rear (i.e., with zero preload I might get 50+ rider sag), then I will eat up all the bike/free sag and have very little, which will give the shock no room to work. I had to crank up the preload because the spring was soft, so I need a stiffer spring. If the spring was stiffer, I would not need as much preload to get 30mm rider sag and I would have more bike/free sag. No?
MoTool sag info
Spring Rate too soft - Rider Sag OK, but too little or no Free Sag
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Holy moly, who knew this subject would be so difficult. @0260n25 I can't speak to what you have heard before but a shock spring on a sports bike should have no less than 10 mm of installed preload and really no more than 16 mm. The reason for this is simple, on the lower side you need at least 10 mm so when the tire drops into dips on the surface there is spring that can extend, there is a top out spring in the shock that also helps with this on the other side too much preload will cause coil binding. What this means for you is that you need to know what the free length of the spring is and then the installed length. If you tell me the number on the spring I can give you an approximate value but no two springs are exactly the same length.
Ohlins sells all sorts of springs that have different internal and external diameters in addition to lengths and rates. Each shock they sell can sometimes have several different spring types, each of which have al of these properties.
The goal is 30 mm of rider sag with the rear shock. IF you adjust your preload with this goal in mind and achieve it BUT your bike sag is not between 10-15 mm then you need a different spring, PERIOD.
Ohlins sells all sorts of springs that have different internal and external diameters in addition to lengths and rates. Each shock they sell can sometimes have several different spring types, each of which have al of these properties.
The goal is 30 mm of rider sag with the rear shock. IF you adjust your preload with this goal in mind and achieve it BUT your bike sag is not between 10-15 mm then you need a different spring, PERIOD.
Sorry, Roadracerx, for the confusion, that's the problem with typing, time differences, other language and so. Should we be talking about this issue it would be cleared in a minute! Now it's taking days, sorry for that.
I know the shock has a installed preload, mine is 12mm. Like you said, the goal is 30 mm of rider sag in the rear, you use the preloadadjuster for this reason,
Let's assume without any extra preload on the adjuster I still can't get 30mm ( for ex. 23mm) then that's clear to me. The spring is to hard.
But when you have your 30mm ridersag and you measure the bikesag, when this isn't between the 10-15mm you also need a different spring , that's clear no problem. But which way to go is the question I have.
Let's say the bikesag is just 5mm (too little) is the spring than too soft or too hard? Just because of the installed preload i find that confusing. Can you please explain that.Thanks,
I know the shock has a installed preload, mine is 12mm. Like you said, the goal is 30 mm of rider sag in the rear, you use the preloadadjuster for this reason,
Let's assume without any extra preload on the adjuster I still can't get 30mm ( for ex. 23mm) then that's clear to me. The spring is to hard.
But when you have your 30mm ridersag and you measure the bikesag, when this isn't between the 10-15mm you also need a different spring , that's clear no problem. But which way to go is the question I have.
Let's say the bikesag is just 5mm (too little) is the spring than too soft or too hard? Just because of the installed preload i find that confusing. Can you please explain that.Thanks,
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Rikkie if your static sag is 12mm then your preload setting is good.
Now if the rider sag is much less than 30mm then the spring is too hard.
If the rider sag is much more than 30mm then the spring is too soft.
That’s it.
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I tried to write that so it was as clear as possible and re-wrote it a few times, totally f'ing it up in the process.
However, I've read and heard from more than one source that track setups should have less sag and be stiffer. Is this not the case in your opinion?
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If I may give my 2c… stiffer yea but not less sag (this is if the pace is fast).
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I set sag the same way for everyone with the same targets on a sport bike. Let's not forget the purpose of setting sag.....to get the damper in the middle third of its stroke with rider on board using maintenance throttle on a smooth surface so that when that rider brakes the suspension doesn't bottom out and when they accelerate the rear has traction.
I also set rebound the same for just about everyone, compression is what really changes and as the rider gains confidence that also changes and when the rider is really fast then both rebound and compression changes slightly track to track.
It is the bike sag that tells you if the spring you have installed is too soft or too hard when the target rider sag number has been acheived. Is this scenario above the spring would be too stiff. I understand this is counter-intuitive. Think about it like this.....the bike isn't sagging enough under it's own weight because the spring is too stiff and if you reduced the preload your bike and rider sag would increase.
Keep in mind these targets are for sports bikes with roughly 5" of suspension travel. These settings are different for bikes used for motocross, supermoto or even other sporting bikes with different suspension travel.
I also set rebound the same for just about everyone, compression is what really changes and as the rider gains confidence that also changes and when the rider is really fast then both rebound and compression changes slightly track to track.
It is the bike sag that tells you if the spring you have installed is too soft or too hard when the target rider sag number has been acheived. Is this scenario above the spring would be too stiff. I understand this is counter-intuitive. Think about it like this.....the bike isn't sagging enough under it's own weight because the spring is too stiff and if you reduced the preload your bike and rider sag would increase.
Keep in mind these targets are for sports bikes with roughly 5" of suspension travel. These settings are different for bikes used for motocross, supermoto or even other sporting bikes with different suspension travel.
Yes, but remember that most tracks have a relatively smooth surface compared to the street. I could run a track set up, but the bike would be so stiff, the roads would beat the hell out of me. And on the 1299, I run at the upper end of sag because the roads where I live are so constantly bumpy around town. As I get further out things smooth out.
Once I get out of town my suspension is absolutely too soft for fast paced back roads, and I can feel the bike move when I don’t want it to. But, I’m not at the track, and I don’t need to prove anything to anyone.
And with the Slacker, I can reset the sag in 10 - 15 minutes.
Thanks, roadracerx, I see I'm not the only one who finds it confusing. What alkhater is saying sounds very logical but is actually the opposit what your saying, correct me plaese when i'm wrong. Like I understand it: He sets the bikersag (freesag) at 12mm and the ridersag is too little (less than 30mm) , spring is too hard. The same spring with your methode: you set ridersag at 30mm (you need less preload to get 30mm) and this means that the bikesag also will be more. You say the spring is too soft.
Man O man, i'm getting a headache
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Thanks Im pretty sure the 466 is for the x99 version, as thats what I got for the 1299, but the reason I ask is that Im pretty sure 468 is for the V4, just want to make sure its the right model for a little upcoming project.
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Yea, all shocks have revisions....usually nothing to be concerned about.
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Advice is much appreciated RoadracerX,
I have just purchased a 2022 base model Panigale V4 for road use only. 85kg with gear. Bike has only 50klm and complete stock suspension other than replacing steering damper with Ohlins adjustable.
Would you concur to these setting thus far:
Tire pressure- front 32psi rear 28psi
Static sag-front 30mm rear 15mm
Rider sag- front 40mm rear 30mm
I have gathered this information from previous threads but unsure if it applies to track use only.
Any further advice in regards to compression, rebound and dampening (front&rear) settings would be of great benefit.
Again appreciate your help!
Cheers
I have just purchased a 2022 base model Panigale V4 for road use only. 85kg with gear. Bike has only 50klm and complete stock suspension other than replacing steering damper with Ohlins adjustable.
Would you concur to these setting thus far:
Tire pressure- front 32psi rear 28psi
Static sag-front 30mm rear 15mm
Rider sag- front 40mm rear 30mm
I have gathered this information from previous threads but unsure if it applies to track use only.
Any further advice in regards to compression, rebound and dampening (front&rear) settings would be of great benefit.
Again appreciate your help!
Cheers
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@luigionassis yes all seems in order but I would use 33 PSI front and 30 PSI rear on the stock tires. Also, set the Ohlins damper 7 clicks in from full open.
Sag is the same, street or track, the goal is to keep you in the middle third of the stroke.
Sag is the same, street or track, the goal is to keep you in the middle third of the stroke.
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