FREE Suspension Setup advice from an expert

roadracerx said:

@micao, there is an ideal ride height, mostly to achieve the correct swingarm angle. This is measured with the Ducati Corse ride height tool. If I gave you a number based on that you would need the same tool. I can look at my shock and get back to you on the length. IF you change gearing this changes EVERYTHING so here is what I recommend. Make sure your chain tension is correct and adjust the shock length and for ride height per the specs I'll post later THEN measure a spot on the tail section, I like to use a piece of tape with "X" to make an exact spot, to another fixed spot and take note of that distance. Next, install your new gearing and re-adjust chain tension again. Finally you must adjust shock length again to get the distance you had before between your two points.

Rider sag is measured with ALL your riding gear so please take that into account.

Make sure that front tire is at least 32 PSI cold. 28-30 rear.

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This makes sense, but doesn’t it assume you have the correct baseline ride height. Is stock already the proper ride height and all adjustments to sag and gearing made to return to the stock ride height?

Good morning @Paul G looks like you are heading in the wrong direction with your changes. Is your weight 206 lbs with or without gear? Either way that weight is too much for the stock springs both front and rear. What are the sizes of the Rosso Corsa tires? Is this a Corsa or Corsa II? Front sag should be 40 mm. Raising the front will cause the bike to run wide if you have not also raised the rear in this case. With a rider over 200 lbs, too little sag in the front, raising the front and no adjustment to the rear shock preload and possibly a smaller diameter tire you have basically turned your bike into a chopper. Also the rebound and compression settings are too closed. Let's get the geometry back to stock and re-check that sag first and get the correct size tires on the bike. Does your owner's manual have recommended settings for the 1299, if so set everything back to those recommendations and then let's fine tune it.

@AmpForE, stock is pretty good! Race tires, gearing changes, certain tracks and/or features and rider capability require changes. Panigale(s) off the showroom floor will work pretty well IF the rider is generally between 175-195 lbs but if that rider weighs more or less then springs are needed and sag settings need to be reset.

There is quite a lot that goes into getting a bike to handle well and manufacturers have smart engineers and great testers who deliver a bike to the dealers that handles pretty well. But if the tire pressure isn't set correctly or the rider is too heavy or light for the spring rates installed then that bike isn't going to perform well.

Customers buy these bikes and think they know better and start changing gearing and/or tires, etc. without taking into account how those changes affect the geometry of the bike. My favorite is the 1 down front sprocket and 1 up change and those folks who run the tires to the cords and replace with a cheaper tire then say the bike sucks, LOL!

Helping people on a thread like this presents challenges because I can't see the bike in person and take measurements or even ride it to feel what is going on. My butt and hands can feel a 1 mm change in ride height and sometimes you can get the geometry perfect, sag measurements in a good spot and the bike will feel GREAT on a test ride but on the race track you may find a small change is needed. What works on the street doesn't always work for track use and vice versa so I like to eliminate as many variables as. possible.

Add to all this that not every rider wants the same thing from a bike. Speed = Confidence. Confidence is gained when your expectations are reinforced consistently. Some riders can't go fast unless they know exactly what the front end is doing, others are more focused on rear end traction.

It all gets quite complicated, this probably didn't help make anything easier but we will keep at it.

roadracerx said:

Good morning @Paul G looks like you are heading in the wrong direction with your changes. Is your weight 206 lbs with or without gear? Either way that weight is too much for the stock springs both front and rear. What are the sizes of the Rosso Corsa tires? Is this a Corsa or Corsa II? Front sag should be 40 mm. Raising the front will cause the bike to run wide if you have not also raised the rear in this case. With a rider over 200 lbs, too little sag in the front, raising the front and no adjustment to the rear shock preload and possibly a smaller diameter tire you have basically turned your bike into a chopper. Also the rebound and compression settings are too closed. Let's get the geometry back to stock and re-check that sag first and get the correct size tires on the bike. Does your owner's manual have recommended settings for the 1299, if so set everything back to those recommendations and then let's fine tune it.

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Thanks for that and to clarify, thats 206 with gear, the tires are 200/55 & 120/70 Rosso Corsa II's, the front of the bike is lowered by 5 mm i.e more fork is showing. The stock settings for shock and fork for C and R; all settings on both are 10 clicks out. Shock preload is 12mm. No sag settings in the manual. Had a look for the specs on the RC II no luck in finding its rolling diameter compared to the SC.

@Paul G 206 lbs with gear isn't far off and workable for the street but we gotta get the sag right on both ends which is 40 mm front and 30 mm rear. The manual will usually give recommendations on street and track settings for rebound and compression, not usually bike and rider sag.

What you did was drop the front or shorten the fork, in my speak. Raising the front in my world is the handle bar is farther from the ground, the bike is being RAISED, make sense? Dropping the front makes sense in this context if you are using a tire with a smaller diameter like the 200/55 Rosso Corsa II. You don't want "rolling diameter" as you mentioned, you want the radius - meaning from the center of the axle to the ground.

The 200/55 RC II is 652 mm and the 200/60 SP V3 is 673 mm in diameter, BIG difference! Are you sure you were using a SP V3 on the 1299? The Diablo Supercorsa SP V2 in 200/55 is 656 mm as is the TD in the same size.

So take the difference in diameter and divide by 2, which gives you 11 mm, that is how much lower the rear than it was stock.

Most linkage ratios are about 2.5 mm of travel at the wheel for 1 mm of shock travel so given all that info.....you have lowered the rear of the bike going from a SP V3 to RC II tires by 11 mm and you have lowered the front not by 5 mm but rather by the hypotenuse of that measurement. We can say 4.5 mm for now. Keep in mind you have also changed the trail on the bike....more on that later.

Are you going to stick with the RC II tires? If so I would start by lengthening the shock by 3 mm. I don't recall if the Showa shock is a 1 mm pitch or more so I would recommend removing it and measuring eye-to-eye on a piece of cardboard with two pens that will fit into each eye, make a dot on the cardboard and then loose the bottom nut and turn it out 3 turns and see where you are after measuring again.

About your rebound and compression settings. Rebound is more of a science and compression more of a feel thing. I remove all rebound and compression from both the fork and shock when I start with a cold bike AFTER bike and rider sag has been set. This means all clickers are fully counter-clockwise or open.

1.) Push the front end down and release. As you release the pressure on the fork let the fork return from the initial input and observe. The fork should return past the point of your initial input and go back down a bit again and maybe one more time kindof like an inflated basketball bounces on its own.
What you want to do is control the movement so that when the fork returns it comes back to the original point, maybe slightly above that point, and then settles - not repeated bouncing. You will close or turn the rebound clicker(s) clockwise until you get the desired effect. Once you have the fork in a good place then take note of how many clicks you are away from fully clockwise, write it down, and return the fork to the number of clicks out from full clockwise.
2.) Push on the seat to set your rebound so that the rate at which the bike returns from the input matches the front. This takes time to develop the feel and be able to push on the front and rear of the bike in a consistent and even manner. Having a friend stand to the side to watch can help a lot.

You will know your rebound is too fast, meaning you do not have the valve closed enough, if the front end pops up quickly when you release the brakes or between shifts.

3.) Fork compression is set to feel and I typically start with the setting at the midway point between fully clockwise (closed) and clockwise (open). The fork should provide some resistance to bottoming to keep you off the bottom but not so stiff that your fork is staying in the middle third of the total stroke on corner entry. You will have to experiment with this and I recommend getting a 43 mm fork travel indicator from Amazon or similar. This will show you how much of the travel you are using.

4.) Once again set the rear to the front. The shock should rebound and compress at the same rate. This is what people mean when they say the bike feels balanced.

No, it make perfect sense to me. After riding my Speed Triple for 2 year and feeling like i was going to crash every time i leaned the thing over, once I get it set for me it could not believe how much better if felt. i went from the front running wide on me to spinning the rear after I hit the apex. The 1299 out of the box is stiff in the rear and soft up front. I can set the sag, but C and R are not natural to me. Ride height and swing are angle are also know, but after I set the 1299 up last year it was much better. When i changed the tires to Corso Rosso II i felt the difference. As it stands I'm too out of the box to measure from stock, so I'll have to get a feel for what it's doing and then make adjustments. All is good so far. Looking forward to a fun season getting to know the bike as I make adjustments to suit my riding.

Let's get it working right from the get-go....no guessing.

Ok, so I took the shock off and measured it 312, stock is meant to be 315. I added 3 mm to 318 as I will keep the RC's on for winter. I got out my racetech bible and checked using their sag method, and it was way out like miles! the rear was 42.5 and the front 30. Adjusted now to R30 and F40. Working on the clicker settings but will have to wait until lockdown is over for a road test beyond going to the supermarket.

Awesome to have some personal advice, big thanks and Ill give some feedback as we progress.

Lol, I’d have to buy a new set SP2’s to get back to a baseline. I can move it back to flat, but another set of tires, hmmm.

I’m glad to be learning so much and can’t wait till it warms up, snowed today in MI.

My girlfriends son bought an R6 so I told him is set his up. Um, his forks are dead, push down the fork and it stays down. Pull up and it stays up. Oh boy.

@Paul G set the tire pressure front and rear and go have a ride....you should feel a difference right away.

@AmpForE I would to help. Let me know your level of commitment.

I experimented with F or P and F was definitely better for me. Unless you are really going to push the limits on the road then the RC's I have found to be a great compromise, profile is one thing but in terms of grip etc the RC's great. A mate has just done a 6k ride on them on his 1198 and they still look good for another 2k, hes not slow but he is very smooth, that said I destroyed my first set in 2k which included one track day.

Tire pressures, that seems to be a minefield for not so experienced riders like me. Ive been through 16 tires on this bike in the last 14 months and everytime I go to the shop they lecture me on high road pressure like 40R 38F, but that has never felt right in terms of grip and on the Pirellis I go with the 32R and 34F. Does that sound about right?

@Paul G I recommend 32 front, 28 rear PSI on cold Pirelli Diablo SP V2 for street; for track I lower the rear to 26 PSI cold and I check after my first couple of sessions to make sure the tire does not exceed 29 PSI (hot off track). If it does I bring it back to 28 and check again after the next session.

SP V3 I recommend 33 front, 30 rear with same adjustments for track as SP V2.

The RC II I don't use because I am after maximum grip at all times and I think tires are cheap insurance....buy the best ones and use 'em up and replace them before they cup or square off.

While it is great to get thousands of miles from tires it is simply not reality for fast riders. That being said you can get a bike to work well on other tires. Sounds to me like you want a tire that lasts and that is your priority.

I presume my pressure settings will work just fine for you given the guidance I see from Pirelli but 34 front and 32 rear seem reasonable so stick with that or maybe try what I recommend and see if you gain confidence or feel no difference, please report back what you experience.

roadracerx said:

@Paul G set the tire pressure front and rear and go have a ride....you should feel a difference right away.

@AmpForE I would to help. Let me know your level of commitment.

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To the 1299, I’m at the 90th percentile of where it needs to be for the street, but if I had to guess from a 30 minute ride three weeks ago, I’d say the front tracks a tad bit wider than I’d like. But I need more seat time in the twistys to tell.

The R6, I don’t know where to start, I do know they need to be rebuilt.

roadracerx said:

@Paul G I recommend 32 front, 28 rear PSI on cold Pirelli Diablo SP V2 for street; for track I lower the rear to 26 PSI cold and I check after my first couple of sessions to make sure the tire does not exceed 29 PSI (hot off track). If it does I bring it back to 28 and check again after the next session.

SP V3 I recommend 33 front, 30 rear with same adjustments for track as SP V2.

The RC II I don't use because I am after maximum grip at all times and I think tires are cheap insurance....buy the best ones and use 'em up and replace them before they cup or square off.

While it is great to get thousands of miles from tires it is simply not reality for fast riders. That being said you can get a bike to work well on other tires. Sounds to me like you want a tire that lasts and that is your priority.

I presume my pressure settings will work just fine for you given the guidance I see from Pirelli but 34 front and 32 rear seem reasonable so stick with that or maybe try what I recommend and see if you gain confidence or feel no difference, please report back what you experience.

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I got over using up Supercorsas under 2000ks, was getting too expensive at $750 a set here, so I tried a few different tires. Ultimately supercorsas are the tire for this bike and when summer rolls around again I’ll get some more but for damp days the RCs are better. I usually ride between 350-600ks every single weekend so it’s basically a set Inside 6 weeks hence the RC IIs to try a few different options. Btw don’t know about Michelin slicks but their road tires do not suit a Panigale twin.

That said, I minced the previous set of Rosso Corsas after about 2000ks. Apparently the edge rubber is identical to the supercorsa as it was completely gone. Tire wear is mostly my fault being overly aggressive on the point and shoot, but you don’t buy a 1299 to cruise boulevards do you? I love that drive out of the corner feeling!

I went out for a short ride just now and although it was very limited due to lockdown, it felt great. Much more like a V4 I test rode, easy tip in, very light input and most importantly it held the line really well. Felt as if more throttle made it “dig in” rather that run wide.

Dave Moss suggested 29 at the track for the RCs. I tried 31r and 33f today but didn’t have a chance to really warm them up so can’t comment just yet.

RoadracerX do you have any experience in setting up Mupo stuff? I have a set of new SBK Gas forks and a race spec rear shock for a 1299 build. I don’t know anything about Mupo. Thanks man

@endodoc no I have not setup Mupo, however, the approach is the same.

I measured the wheelbase with the bike on the sidestand, I presume that it needs to be measured with a rider plus gear but I was on my own. 1460 using lasers through the vertical axis of the wheel c/l. Measured twice, but still seems long, I changed the sprocket from 39 to 41 and from memory added 2 links to the chain, needed a small adjustment but not 20mm. Thoughts?

So I am getting ready to race a 959 in CCS this season. I have nix 30 carts up front + TTX GP Shock, both were fully serviced last month including spring change for forks (10 + 10.5, is what we discussed however the Öhlins spec sheet says 10, invoice for parts says 10.5).

I switched to flat linkage w/ adjustable ride height. I have CNC triples, I run SC1/2 tires only, 185 with out gear.

Any my question to you is I am basically going to be starting over with suspension settings, I will need to find a good baseline quickly (I have 4 days track time before first race hopefully it remains scheduled. Can you please take a look at this and let me know what you think?
Also if anyone has raced a 959 and has settings to share would be amazing, but I think few have here. I have reached out to some trioptions cup guys but most of them are on Ktech

Thanks in advance



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@Paul G you are kinda all over the place. Now you have changed gearing and chain length without first getting the bike properly setup for the tires you want to use. Let's make a CLEAR plan.

Depending on gearing there are different PREFERRED lengths for the swingarm which is measured from the center swingarm pivot to the center of the axle.

15/39 should be 104 chain links @ 536 mm
15/41 should be 106 chain links @ 545 mm