Great write-up on the 1299S

From CycleNews - no new info, just a nice writeup with lots of pics.

Cycle News - Cycle News 2015 Issue 10 March 10

I really hope this bike lives up to all the accolades, it's been given. Of all the choices out there, the 1299 was the one that checked all the boxes for me, whereas the 1199 didn't do it for me, even after wanting to like it. I rode the 1199 at least 7 or 8 times, in the hopes it would somehow get better each time, but it didn't.

The 1299 seems to have fixed every single issue I had with the 1199, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed that I made the right choice.

Cheers.

Felt the same way about the 1199, and instead bought an S1000RR. Can't wait for the 1299 though!

McLaren12C said:

Felt the same way about the 1199, and instead bought an S1000RR. Can't wait for the 1299 though!

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I already had the S1000RR and had a deposit down on a Tricolore that was at my friend's Ducati dealership and just couldn't live with the lack of low end and midrange.

Cheers.

Well if the SL is anything to go by, the 1299's should be very good indeed. Although I'm still running it in. It feels totally different to the 1199 its supposed to be based on. The SL inspires a great deal confidence strangely enough. So I would expect the 1299's to carry this theme through.

80shilling said:

I already had the S1000RR and had a deposit down on a Tricolore that was at my friend's Ducati dealership and just couldn't live with the lack of low end and midrange.

Cheers.

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Power delivery can be deceiving. The 1199 carries a horsepower and torque advantage over the S1000RR throughout the low end and midrange, all while offering a 35 pound weight advantage. The BMW pulls ahead in the 11,000+ RPM range.

If I may, what exactly were you planning on doing with the Tricolore that would influence you to believe this much low and mid range power was unacceptable?

+1about Duck41's question.

The way you say it 80shilling makes it seem as if there's a world of difference between the 1199 and 1299. "The 1199 just didn't do it for me even after 7 or 8 rides"

That's just a bunch of bull. The 1199 may not have the mid range straight out the box like the 1299 does or the low end torque but it certainly isn't that much of a difference to warrant that kind of a response as if it doesn't meet your standards. At least say somethin like "I sold my bmw around the time the 1299 was announced and decided to hold off for the latest n greatest since it has an improved midrange and low end torque". That would be acceptable. Nothing proper gearing and tuning can't fix.

80shilling said:

I really hope this bike lives up to all the accolades, it's been given. Of all the choices out there, the 1299 was the one that checked all the boxes for me, whereas the 1199 didn't do it for me, even after wanting to like it. I rode the 1199 at least 7 or 8 times, in the hopes it would somehow get better each time, but it didn't.

The 1299 seems to have fixed every single issue I had with the 1199, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed that I made the right choice.

Cheers.

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I think its great that you are getting a 1299. If I was buying now I would not buy a cheap runout 1199 I would buy the 1299.

But having said that, I do not think it will be that much of a difference and if you thought the 1199 just did not do it for you then you may be disappointed with a 1299. It will not be that much different.

I reckon if you rode my 1199S that has increased torque in the midrange from an Akra and a custom TB tune, plus a 41 tooth rear and lighter drive chain you would not find it so bad.

For me, if I could afford it, (which is a euphemism for saying my wife wouldn't kill me), I'd still buy an R over the 1299S. I think the 1299 is awesome but I would secretly want an apple to Apple comparison. Which means a Panigale R vs. R1M, vs. RSV4RF, vs. HP4 or better. The 1299 wouldn't be allowed to compete on a track together which IMHO is the only place these bikes belong.

The 1299 is like a German Shepard, the R is the wolf.

Thamer said:

For me, if I could afford it, (which is a euphemism for saying my wife wouldn't kill me), I'd still buy an R over the 1299S. I think the 1299 is awesome but I would secretly want an apple to Apple comparison. Which means a Panigale R vs. R1M, vs. RSV4RF, vs. HP4 or better. The 1299 wouldn't be allowed to compete on a track together which IMHO is the only place these bikes belong.

The 1299 is like a German Shepard, the R is the wolf.

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Thamer, the 1299 can compete in 5 different Wera classes. A Superbike and superstock, HW twins SB and SS and one more I beleive. Those classes are oem displacement. I agree though, I want the R.

I've said this before and I'll say it again. The new 1299 will be a great bike, no doubt. But to believe every review that essentially hails the bike as the greatest machine ever and basically relegates the 1199 to the proverbial "scrap" is heap foolish. This is a self-serving industry and the magazines have a job within that industry to help manufacturers sell bikes. The industry does not want us keeping older models and passing on the new ones. It is a hype machine intended to boost sales.

I agree the difference is incremental at best and can be essentially eliminated with tuning and gearing. That being said, any extra displacement and factory tuning will yield more power. The new electronics look very nice. I am sure it is an awesome machine. But definitely not one that renders the 1199 obsolete. Far from it.

I think guys get a little defensive, and understandably so, when a review comes out and everyone jumps on the bandwagon and calls the 1199 inadequate and the 1299 a masterpiece. The same went on when the 1199 replaced the 1198. Every four to five years it is the same drill.

Duck41 said:

Power delivery can be deceiving. The 1199 carries a horsepower and torque advantage over the S1000RR throughout the low end and midrange, all while offering a 35 pound weight advantage. The BMW pulls ahead in the 11,000+ RPM range.

If I may, what exactly were you planning on doing with the Tricolore that would influence you to believe this much low and mid range power was unacceptable?

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double0 said:

+1about Duck41's question.

The way you say it 80shilling makes it seem as if there's a world of difference between the 1199 and 1299. "The 1199 just didn't do it for me even after 7 or 8 rides"

That's just a bunch of bull. The 1199 may not have the mid range straight out the box like the 1299 does or the low end torque but it certainly isn't that much of a difference to warrant that kind of a response as if it doesn't meet your standards. At least say somethin like "I sold my bmw around the time the 1299 was announced and decided to hold off for the latest n greatest since it has an improved midrange and low end torque". That would be acceptable. Nothing proper gearing and tuning can't fix.

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Let's get this straight; I LOVE the way the Panigale looks; best looking bike out there right now and I REALLY wanted to love the whole bike, which is why I was first in line to get one when they first came out, but after riding the 1199 MANY, MANY times, it always left me annoyed by various small issues, which when I added them up, meant I didn't buy the bike. I had my BMW S1000RR and my Triumph Daytona 675R (one of the absolute best, sweetest bikes out there) and couldn't see myself paying $25K for a Bike that didn't do it for me at that time.

As well as racing with AFM and doing trackdays on my Motorcycles, I also commute on them EVERY day.. and I mean EVERY day - rain, fog, sun, cold.. I put over 50,000 miles on my S1000RR in slightly less than 4 years and I will do the same with the Panigale (one of the reasons I didn't buy the "R" - I couldn't bear to see it commuted on, since it's a special bike... The "S" is less exotic and will be better at commuting, I think).

Admittedly, my BMW S1000RR had a full race Akrapovic system and custom tune, so had a big bump over stock in the midrange, as well as the top end, but the 1199 left me unimpressed with the fueling, the heat from the pipes was brutal and whenever I felt like I was just getting into the meat of the powerband, it smacked off the rev limiter... It seemed to have a very narrow rev range in which it worked properly.

Again, I rode the very first Panigale that my friend's dealership in San Francisco got in, so it was the first gen bike with none of the fixes that have helped present owners.

I have my own set of criteria and my own peculiar circumstances; I'm not exactly the usual Literbike owner, since I use my Motorcycles to their absolute fullest, due to the all around nature of what I do with them, so your opinion is duly noted and I understand where you are coming from, but my opinion, is my opinion and that's what I base my buying decisions on... NOT Magazine reviews, or my friend Bob's opinion, or random Internet dude's Youtube "test".

When all's said and done, I haven't owned a Ducati since I had my 998R and the 1299 seems like it will do the job for me. I looked at all the choices I had for 2015 and after carefully considering all the pros and cons, the 1299 won me over, since the Moto Journalists are telling me that all my previous niggles seem to have been fixed.

The easy route for me would have been to just buy the 2015 BMW S1000RR, but I wanted something new and the Panigale was SOOOOOO close in it's 1199 iteration, that the 1299 called my name the strongest of all the competitors.

Cheers.

80shilling said:

... but after riding the 1199 MANY, MANY times, it always left me annoyed by various small issues, which when I added them up, meant I didn't buy the bike.
.
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...Again, I rode the very first Panigale that my friend's dealership in San Francisco got in, so it was the first gen bike with none of the fixes that have helped present owners.

..The easy route for me would have been to just buy the 2015 BMW S1000RR, but I wanted something new and the Panigale was SOOOOOO close in it's 1199 iteration, that the 1299 called my name the strongest of all the competitors.

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List of all those "fixes" please.

Especially all of those "fixes" that make the 1299 the Second Coming and, because they're absent on the 1199 make it the major fail you claim.

As the owner of a "12 ( the "first generation") base I'm having trouble trying to remember all of those (evidently numerous) "fixes" I don't have that have so "helped present owners". So let's see the complete list. Given your admitted expertise in being able to ride M/C's to "their absolute fullest" this should be easy.

Charliem90 said:

List of all those "fixes" please.

Especially all of those "fixes" that make the 1299 the Second Coming and, because they're absent on the 1199 make it the major fail you claim.

As the owner of a "12 ( the "first generation") base I'm having trouble trying to remember all of those (evidently numerous) "fixes" I don't have that have so "helped present owners". So let's see the complete list. Given your admitted expertise in being able to ride M/C's to "their absolute fullest" this should be easy.

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Better heat shield, more midrange, better handling, better electronics. Those were the critiques I had when I rode the 1199. Simple. Glad I could help sort out the confusion for you.

Like I said.. personal opinion and preferences. Your personal opinion might vary and I'm sure it does. No need to get so touchy about my opinion, I'm just some dude you don't know, why would you care?

80shilling said:

Better heat shield, more midrange, better handling, better electronics. Those were the critiques I had when I rode the 1199. Simple. Glad I could help sort out the confusion for you.

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So the later 1199's had more midrange, better handling and better electronics? When did that happen?

Arguable on the heat shield, btw. I declined it. And it, of course, had nothing to do with performance.

Charliem90 said:

So the later 1199's had more midrange, better handling and better electronics? When did that happen?

Arguable on the heat shield, btw. I declined it. And it, of course, had nothing to do with performance.

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Correct me if I'm wrong about some of these, and I may be. An updated heatshield was one of the fixes, another fix that has been applied by owners is to go with aftermarket fuel solution like RapidBike and Tuneboy to sort out the fueling issues, some people have re-geared by changing out the front sprocket for 1 tooth less, or going 1 or 2 up on the rear, this helps give more torque in gear and my Ducati dealer tells me that there have been a few software/firmware updates done in the later model years.

Small changes that seem to have made the 1199 better than when it first came out and most of those seem to have been addressed by the 1299.

This is starting to seem like the Triumph 675 forum where the owners of the standard bikes decided that the people who bought the 675R were somehow denigrating the standard model... Sheesh.

bradp51 said:

I think its great that you are getting a 1299. If I was buying now I would not buy a cheap runout 1199 I would buy the 1299.

But having said that, I do not think it will be that much of a difference and if you thought the 1199 just did not do it for you then you may be disappointed with a 1299. It will not be that much different.

I reckon if you rode my 1199S that has increased torque in the midrange from an Akra and a custom TB tune, plus a 41 tooth rear and lighter drive chain you would not find it so bad.

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I fully agree, with full Akra+Custom Tune the midrange torque of the 1199 is so much better compared even to latest OEM mapping+OEM exhaust, especially there is no dip in the torque curve any more. In addition with a 15/41 gearing the wheel torque should be similar to a 1299 with OEM setup at the same vehicle speed. Additionally, lets wait and see what the 1299 delivers on the bench, the official Ducati power/torque curves are always too optimistic. I hope there will be some real tests soon....

Ljuice26 said:

Thamer, the 1299 can compete in 5 different Wera classes. A Superbike and superstock, HW twins SB and SS and one more I beleive. Those classes are oem displacement. I agree though, I want the R.

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Exactly. Why get an R if a 1299S if basically free power when racing in WERA or CMRA F1 or A sbk ss.

spaz said:

Exactly. Why get an R if a 1299S if basically free power when racing in WERA or CMRA F1 or A sbk ss.

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Better/lighter internals that will likely survive longer at redline for one. That's just speculation though on my part. But the R motors have typically been more reliable as a racing platform than the standard ones. Flipside is they cost more if they break.

shakazulu12 said:

Better/lighter internals that will likely survive longer at redline for one. That's just speculation though on my part. But the R motors have typically been more reliable as a racing platform than the standard ones. Flipside is they cost more if they break.

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The thing I'm keen to see and feel is how the 1299 motor will stack up against the 14 and 15 at models as a race motor. In particular the lower redline compared to the higher redline and faster revving engine internals.

All the new bikes will be excellent. Any 1199 owner can imagine what the changes will feel like on the new bikes. For me though it's going to be hard to choose between the 1299 base kitted out the same as the new R vs the new R or tweaking my current R.