High idle .... again

Hi All
First of all, I am from Denmark and not used to writing English so I hope it is understandable what I write
I have read a couple of treads about high idle, but I have never found/read a solution too this issue !!!

I have a 2012 1199 I only use for trackdays
The last 1-2 years I have issue with high idle up to 4000-5000 rpm but only in Neutral and first gear, in all other gears the idle is fine.
I get High idle with cold (not always) and hot engine
If I Calibrate/Reset TPS + APS + MAP with MelcoDiag, the Idle is fine for a short period (less than track day)
I have replaced the complete Wiring harness + Gear Sensor + MAP sendors, but until now nothing has helped for more than a short period.

I now need some inputs to move forward ...........
Why this only happens in Neutral and first gear?
Does anyone have a solution to the issue?

I couldn't explain why only in certain gears, but I did see high idles when messing with my MAP sensors, but it would eventually settle after 20 seconds. Have you looked for any air leaks? As the MAP sensors work on vacuum, an air leaks will show less and then add more fuel. There's only so much control the throttles would be able to have in driving the idle down. Can't say for sure, but there's not a lot to check - MAP hoses, EVAP hoses if they're still fitted, and the fittings into the heads. Might pay to disconnect one MAP sensor at a time to isolate which cylinder is driving the high idle too.

Disco said:

I couldn't explain why only in certain gears, but I did see high idles when messing with my MAP sensors, but it would eventually settle after 20 seconds. Have you looked for any air leaks? As the MAP sensors work on vacuum, an air leaks will show less and then add more fuel. There's only so much control the throttles would be able to have in driving the idle down. Can't say for sure, but there's not a lot to check - MAP hoses, EVAP hoses if they're still fitted, and the fittings into the heads. Might pay to disconnect one MAP sensor at a time to isolate which cylinder is driving the high idle too.

Click to expand...

Thanks for you answer.
I have checked the MAP system (sensors + hoses + manifolds) more than 10 times, and I have also mounted new MAP sensors, and calibratet those many many times, but that just get the error away for a short time.

BUT..............................
I think I have found the problem (must wait for the motor to cold down before I`m sure), it is related to the calibration of the Gear Sensor, which also make sense because the error is only there in "N" & "1"
I REALLY hope this is it ;-)

I will follow up in a short time

At the moment it look like the Gear Sensor only is a part of the problem :-(
I need to test more in the next days.

Question regarding melcodiag
How long time takes a Reset of eg TPS ?
On my bike it takes around 30 seconds

I think (hope) I found it, it was related to 3 things
1. Not calibrated gear sensor, after calibration high idle was also sometimes in other gears than "N" & "1", newer had this before.
2. Defective throttle grip, after change of throttle grip, there was still issues with high idle, but not so pronounced as before.
3. Check of Can-bus routing, found some places (2) where there could be electrical disturbances to the Can-bus, after reorganization of the wiring the Idle was Ok.

In my ownership of the motorcycle, idling has never been so fine, always around 1750 rpm (+/- 50 after the dash).

Now I need a track-day to really check things ;-)

It looks like you are starting to get that sorted. Let us know!

cmh210 said:

It looks like you are starting to get that sorted.

Click to expand...

It was (is) a pain in the ass to find the errors with the tools that I have.................
In search for electrical faults I have MelcoDiag, WinBlip (for blipbox), Multimeter, Scope, diagrams and my common sense.
Would really like to have a look at the original Ducati Diagnosis tool to see if it is easier with this, but it is next to impossible to get hold of here in Denmark.

Gearsensor, the old one died and I the new neeed calibration, but I did not have the necessary software for this.
I know there is a Ducati service writing for this but I could not get that to function on my bike.
But early this year Melcidiag added this function to their software, so I only had to figure out how to do it.
https://ducatiforum.com/threads/gearbox-position-sensor.41199/
Trottle grip, was the part that most often had to be reset (calibrated) if you looked at the values in MelcoDiag and Winblip, so I decided to buy a new one.
After mounting a new one, it was not necessary to reset more than the first time.

Can-bus, that took a little time to understand this (and a lot of reading on the internet).
With Key-On and motor stopped, al values (TPS+APS+MAP+Shift sensor+ others) were stable.
With Key-On and motor started it look like the some of the values jump around wenn trying to hold the bike on fixed rpm, very hard to see but after many attempts I could see that sometimes values jumped around.
Electrical disturbances usually come from ignition coil high voltage, so I checked the wiring harness in these places,
at the rear ignition coil, the Can-bus (for diagnostic connectors) and ignition coil wires were very close together.
at the front ignition coil there maybe also was a issue.
fixed these and bump ..........

That Can-bus system is weird. I don't fully understand it. On an R1200 I had the windshield quit working because of some weird thing with the Can-bus. There were only like 4 wires for all the switches on the left handlebar. I have also seen problems caused by the factory securing the wires too tight.

CanBus is a 2 wire (CanHigh & CanLow) bus but also need som voltage to function so there is also 2 wires more for supply (+ & -).
I think the left handlebar switches on your R1200 is a CanBus node (= "Computer").
Inside the handlebar switche all buttons are connect to the "Computer" and the button signals are send to for example the ECU via the CanBus.
Bending bus wires is never a good thing, but it is more likely that there is a bad connection that is triggered by, for example, a tight cable tie.

On a 1199 there is 3 or 4 CanBus nodes (= "Computers"), ECU + DASH + BBS + ABS (mine got no ABS)
Each of these "Computers" collects signals from sensors, buttons etc. and send them (broardcast) to the Canbus so the other "Computers" can read them.
Each "Computer" can also set outputs for example ECU sets injection nozzle, ignition spark etc., DASH sets light and flashing lights.
Each "Computer" also make calculations, for example ECU calc. injection time with help of its own sensors and sensors from other "computers".

There is some really good CanBus explanations on eg. YouTube

Well that will definitely get me started!

sota748 said:

Now I need a track-day to really check things ;-)

Click to expand...

Just home from 2 track-days (probably the last ones this season), and everything worked as it should
Observations
- idle in first gear is always a few hundred rpm higher, but I think thats normal?
- gas/trottle pickup is now much more accurate and the same every time = an easier bike to ride
- bike starts much easier, before there could problems when it was hot
- it is easier to feel when TC is working (I´m not 100% sure of this)

Problem solved

Sweet! It's good to see you got that problem sorted out.