Holding in clutch at stoplight is user error?

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Shardak

Joined
Sep 3, 2021
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My 2021 SF V4S (3,000 miles) developed a problem where the clutch would lose pressure when held in. For example, in 1st gear at a stoplight, if I pull the lever past the friction zone, I can hold the lever for about 30 seconds before the clutch starts to re-engage. I have to keep pulling the lever in farther (about 1mm every 5 seconds), to keep enough pressure in the lines to keep the clutch from biting. The lever feels totally normal other than this issue. I did try to bleed the system, but that made no difference. The dealer also tried to bleed, with the same result.

The mechanic called me today to state the clutch pump is being replaced under warranty. He also said that when they contacted Ducati for the warranty claim, Ducati requested they do "user training" with me. According to the mechanic, Ducati stated that staying in gear at a stoplight is not correct, and holding the clutch in for longer than 2 minutes can cause damage.

I have never heard that ever before.

This is my first bike with hydraulic clutch, so maybe its correct. But seems laughable to me. I usually stay in 1st gear at stoplights so I can evade if someone is going to rear-end me.

Is this an actual fact with Ducati's or hydraulic clutches in general??

Thanks for any info
 
Shardak said:
My 2021 SF V4S (3,000 miles) developed a problem where the clutch would lose pressure when held in. For example, in 1st gear at a stoplight, if I pull the lever past the friction zone, I can hold the lever for about 30 seconds before the clutch starts to re-engage. I have to keep pulling the lever in farther (about 1mm every 5 seconds), to keep enough pressure in the lines to keep the clutch from biting. The lever feels totally normal other than this issue. I did try to bleed the system, but that made no difference. The dealer also tried to bleed, with the same result.

The mechanic called me today to state the clutch pump is being replaced under warranty. He also said that when they contacted Ducati for the warranty claim, Ducati requested they do "user training" with me. According to the mechanic, Ducati stated that staying in gear at a stoplight is not correct, and holding the clutch in for longer than 2 minutes can cause damage.

I have never heard that ever before.

This is my first bike with hydraulic clutch, so maybe its correct. But seems laughable to me. I usually stay in 1st gear at stoplights so I can evade if someone is going to rear-end me.

Is this an actual fact with Ducati's or hydraulic clutches in general??

Thanks for any info
Click to expand...
“user training” ? Complete load of moose manure. Ducati should be embarrassed that they have an employee like that in a position to make recommendations.

That being said, stock OEM Ducati hydraulics are on a good day, not so good so maybe that’s part of their solution which is to put the fault back on the consumer. They seem to do that often with a variety of poorly engineered components.
 
Agree, clutch hydraulics are not rocket science. Master cylinder-line-slave cylinder In other words it pretty hard to .... up tech from the 1940's but there you go.
 
LOL. The only user error is when dealer mechanics think we are all idiots. If your clutch is dragging when you hold in the lever, then it would be very bad to do this at every light. But if your clutch is adjusted properly and you don't hold it just below the friction point, then the wear and tear are minimal. After 30 years of riding motorcycles, I have yet to replace a clutch because I sat in 1st at all the lights. Now those second gear wheelies...:rolleyes:

Motorcycle safety courses (and anyone who has ridden long enough) will tell you to leave it in first gear to cut down on reaction time when you notice you are about to be plowed into from behind. I leave it in first until the car (or two) come to a stop behind me. Then I use neutral to relax my hand (especially since I use stronger clutch springs on many of my motorcycles, although a larger Oberon slave compensates).

Also, I would think that using your clutch at a light would cause wear on the plates and springs, not the slave/pump.

Reminds me of something else...
1630718501698.jpeg
 
Ask your dealer where in the manual it states to refrain from holding the clutch in for more than 2 minutes. If it’s not stated there and then either it’s not true or they have a rather large lawsuit awaiting their doorstep molto rapidamente
 
I never had that problem with my '21 SFv4S.

That said, it had less than 200 miles on it before I swapped the slave for a CNC Racing slave and had the fluid replaced with RBF 660

Seems ...., as others said, to suggest you can't hold the clutch for more than 2 minutes.
Something to think about... I have noticed that the clutch lever all the way out "feels" different than when it is adjusted in. Maybe try opening your clutch lever up some to see if it helps.
 
I’ve done over 600 miles on my ‘21 in over 115 degree weather and it hasn’t done that. My DP clutch lever is adjusted all the way in but I’ve never held the clutch in for 2 minutes either.


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holding the clutch for longer time is a user error :) on every vehicle.
will cause unnecessary wear on the bearings. and its a bit unsafe.
still, loosing pressure over minutes should not happen imho.
if you lock the Brake, it is a question of hours(v4r) or days(rcs19/oldNissinCrap), not minutes.
 
Last edited:
This should be a non issue, you "should" be able to hold it indefinitely and certainly for a few minutes. I like to put the bike in neutral if I know the light is going to be red for a while but l'm lazy.
 
Definitely user error, there is no need to hold the clutch for that long, with any vehicle. Its also stated in the Owners manual, so yes, the dealer is correct.A2D7ECA9-19D5-4CA4-B0BF-C0F1E5B79044.png
 
That part of the manual refers to using the clutch while shifting, when the bike is in motion. When the bike is at a standstill and the clutch is disengaged, what "friction parts" are being overheated?? There is no friction in between clutch plates and motor at this point, correct?

Also, it wasnt friction parts in the clutch that broke. It was the the hydraulic system that controls the clutch. The master cylinder is what is being replaced, which doesnt have anything to do with friction in the clutch assembly.
 
One more thing that made me concerned with this particular mechanic...

When I told him that I bled the system, and he said I shouldnt have done that, it may void the warranty work. Changing fluids voiding the warranty is something I haven't experienced before. Later that evening he called me to ask what brake fluid I used. I told him DOT 4. He said that the bike requires DOT 5.1 and implied this could be the cause of the issue. They charged me $140US to bleed the clutch again, and put DOT 5.1 in it. He said Ducati required them to do that before they would cover the warranty claim.

I told him both the manual and the reservoir cap state that DOT 4 is to be used.

Does this bike actually require DOT 5.1??? To my understanding there is very little difference between the 2 fluids. Slightly higher boiling point in DOT 5.1.
 
Shardak said:
That part of the manual refers to using the clutch while shifting, when the bike is in motion. When the bike is at a standstill and the clutch is disengaged, what "friction parts" are being overheated?? There is no friction in between clutch plates and motor at this point, correct?

Also, it wasnt friction parts in the clutch that broke. It was the the hydraulic system that controls the clutch. The master cylinder is what is being replaced, which doesnt have anything to do with friction in the clutch assembly.
Click to expand...

It’s a general statement, moving or stationary! You’re right that when the clutch is depressed their shouldn’t be any friction between the clutch and flywheel but that applies regardless of bike movement.

But… imho I don’t think your reasoning behind this whole subject is sound. I mean do you seriously hold your clutch in at every traffic light and stare at your mirrors in anticipation of being rear ended?! That doesn’t sound fun at all, I’d rather drive a car or walk.

What are you planning to do in case you are in that situation? Launch yourself into intersecting traffic?

Seriously if you’re that worried then just stop between lanes or beside the curb at a light… and saves yourself the left arm pump while you’re at it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Shardak said:
One more thing that made me concerned with this particular mechanic...

When I told him that I bled the system, and he said I shouldnt have done that, it may void the warranty work. Changing fluids voiding the warranty is something I haven't experienced before. Later that evening he called me to ask what brake fluid I used. I told him DOT 4. He said that the bike requires DOT 5.1 and implied this could be the cause of the issue. They charged me $140US to bleed the clutch again, and put DOT 5.1 in it. He said Ducati required them to do that before they would cover the warranty claim.

I told him both the manual and the reservoir cap state that DOT 4 is to be used.

Does this bike actually require DOT 5.1??? To my understanding there is very little difference between the 2 fluids. Slightly higher boiling point in DOT 5.1.
Click to expand...

DOT 4 & 5.1 are interchangeable.

In fact all DOTs are except 5


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
mr-proper86 said:
Definitely user error, there is no need to hold the clutch for that long, with any vehicle. Its also stated in the Owners manual, so yes, the dealer is correct.View attachment 38758
Click to expand...
You obviously didn’t read the initial post. If he was holding the clutch lever in at a static position and with the clutch plates disengaged, an he has to progressively pull more lever because the clutch plates start engaging then he has an anomaly in the hydraulic system. I can hold my clutch lever in all day with a zip tie and never have plate creep.

As far as parts wearing, there will always be viscous friction in a wet setup but if the plates are disengaging correctly, you won’t have detectable friction plate wear. Additionally there is one bearing at the end of the clutch body. You’re not going to hurt that. There are also seals in the slave and master that of course are stressed under load but we’re talking about a stop light. Not statistically significant.
 
Ask any road safety instructor and they will tell you the safest practice at a stop light is to keep it in gear incase you have to move in a hurry. I would bet most riders don't follow this advice, but those who do would deem the length of a stop light as a necessary time period
 
Alkhater said:
I mean do you seriously hold your clutch in at every traffic light and stare at your mirrors in anticipation of being rear ended?! That doesn’t sound fun at all, I’d rather drive a car or walk.
Click to expand...

No I dont do that. You have jumped to a conclusion.

This is just what the mechanic (apparently on orders from Ducati corporate) told me NOT to do. I never said that I actually hold the clutch in at all stoplights.

I dont commute on this bike, it doesnt see much city traffic at all. Its a weekend bike that is 90% of time being driven on open twisty roads.

For longer stop lights, I put it in neutral. But having Ducati say you can only hold the clutch lever in for a short time seemed like nonsense, so I posted here to get some expert advice!
 
It is nonsense, if it happens again bleed it at both ends and maybe try some different fluid. Mine used to behave badly for the first 30,000 but now for some unknown reason it has been a good boy for the last 10k. The only thing different was changing the fluid brand.
 
Once the car behind me comes to a stop, I put it in neutral.

I have been rear ended by a .... bag in a car who slammed into the back of my old CBR 600 RR, got out and said "I didn't see you." I was literally right in front of him.

As a matter of practice, I change all of my fluid for Motul 660 and bleed everything. I have noticed that if my clutch lever is adjusted really far in, it doesn't have enough travel and will shift very hard. Since I two finger my levers, keeping them all the way out isn't an issue.
 

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