Honda CBR1000RR-R SP 2024 vs V4R 2023

Haha I love it. You’re finally getting it

spooky said:

I’m going to have a look at the Fireblade on Tuesday. There’s only one in the country but thankfully it’s not too far away.

25,700 Euros for the SP and then add the forged wheels to get it roughly equivalent to the V4S and you’re saving about 5,000 Euros with the Honda. If you add an exhaust then it costs a lot less for a full Akrapovic on the Honda than the half system on the Ducati.

21,700 Euros for the base Honda versus 27,490 Euros for the base Ducati. Both need wheels and suspension, and I’d want data as well.

It will be interesting to have a sit on the Honda.

Base with HRC kit, very decent suspension and brakes with exhaust, etc… it would be a pretty serious bit of kit for similar money to the V4S.

SP with some forged wheels and some rearsets would no doubt be a very capable track bike.

Same could be said about the V4S. It felt great to sit on and I like the simplicity of the TPMS and DDA add-ons. DDA actually doesn’t seem bad value. Then again, you could stick the new AiM logger on the tail with the Honda for half the price.

My head says the Fireblade is probably the way to go, either with the SP and keep it simple or the base and spec it up for the fun of it.

My heart still fancies the Panigale, which of course you’d not be having buyers remorse about.

Swinging back and forth between the two and I’m buying a house and don’t want a mortgage, so I can’t really be buying two bikes like Steven and keeping another three in the garage. If I do that then it will cost me a fortune in shoes and handbags… Practically speaking, I’m getting to the age where I’m starting to hate having lots of stuff hanging around that I don’t need or use.

Just thinking out loud and trying to convince myself to go down the Honda route…

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Spooky I’m actually waffling back over to the dark side of the force lol.

Leaning toward ordering the V4S.

Here’s why, and it’s specific to my wants. I’m looking into buying another liter bike specifically to jump on and go turn a fast lap time occasionally. I still plan on riding my RC 8C most of the time until I get ALOT faster on the much more analogue smaller bike.

I don’t plan on racing this season.

I’m convinced that the SP would make a faster cheaper more capable race bike. BUT I’m not gunna be racing quite yet. Maybe next season.

I’m equally convinced that with just some basic suspension setup, a set of slicks, and a new brake MC that I can ride the Ducati faster than I could the SP, at least in the beginning. All those rider aids on the V4S in aggregate are VERY compelling for setting lap times.

Will I become a better rider on the V4S…nope.

But I have the RC 8C for that.

Will I become a better rider on the SP, “probably”.

But I have the RC 8C for that.

Will a really good rider go faster on a well sorted SP than a V4S, I think definately so.

But I think “I” will probably be faster on the V4S than the SP.

The 2025 V4S is a cheat code, plain and simple. I kinda don’t like that aspect of it so 90% of the time I’ll still be on my RC 8C. But the whole reason I’m looking into a liter bike right now is to whip out as a cheat code occasionally.

If next season I feel like I’m ready to start some entry level racing then I can build out that SP.

At least that’s where I’m at today

Also V4Evo has the track fairings for the 2025 V4 listed on their site for $980…The race cans for $3900 instead of $5000, and the under tail for $8300.

The CF wheels they have listed for a higher price than the Ducati configurator though.

Steven31371 said:

Spooky I’m actually waffling back over to the dark side of the force lol.

Leaning toward ordering the V4S.

Here’s why, and it’s specific to my wants. I’m looking into buying another liter bike specifically to jump on and go turn a fast lap time occasionally. I still plan on riding my RC 8C most of the time until I get ALOT faster on the much more analogue smaller bike.

I don’t plan on racing this season.

I’m convinced that the SP would make a faster cheaper more capable race bike. BUT I’m not gunna be racing quite yet. Maybe next season.

I’m equally convinced that with just some basic suspension setup, a set of slicks, and a new brake MC that I can ride the Ducati faster than I could the SP, at least in the beginning. All those rider aids on the V4S in aggregate are VERY compelling for setting lap times.

Will I become a better rider on the V4S…nope.

But I have the RC 8C for that.

Will I become a better rider on the SP, “probably”.

But I have the RC 8C for that.

Will a really good rider go faster on a well sorted SP than a V4S, I think definately so.

But I think “I” will probably be faster on the V4S than the SP.

The 2025 V4S is a cheat code, plain and simple. I kinda don’t like that aspect of it so 90% of the time I’ll still be on my RC 8C. But the whole reason I’m looking into a liter bike right now is to whip out as a cheat code occasionally.

If next season I feel like I’m ready to start some entry level racing then I can build out that SP.

At least that’s where I’m at today

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Talk about mental gymnastics to rationalize a bike purchase.

What class will you race the V4S?

Steven31371 said:

Spooky I’m actually waffling back over to the dark side of the force lol.

Leaning toward ordering the V4S.

Here’s why, and it’s specific to my wants. I’m looking into buying another liter bike specifically to jump on and go turn a fast lap time occasionally. I still plan on riding my RC 8C most of the time until I get ALOT faster on the much more analogue smaller bike.

I don’t plan on racing this season.

I’m convinced that the SP would make a faster cheaper more capable race bike. BUT I’m not gunna be racing quite yet. Maybe next season.

I’m equally convinced that with just some basic suspension setup, a set of slicks, and a new brake MC that I can ride the Ducati faster than I could the SP, at least in the beginning. All those rider aids on the V4S in aggregate are VERY compelling for setting lap times.

Will I become a better rider on the V4S…nope.

But I have the RC 8C for that.

Will I become a better rider on the SP, “probably”.

But I have the RC 8C for that.

Will a really good rider go faster on a well sorted SP than a V4S, I think definately so.

But I think “I” will probably be faster on the V4S than the SP.

The 2025 V4S is a cheat code, plain and simple. I kinda don’t like that aspect of it so 90% of the time I’ll still be on my RC 8C. But the whole reason I’m looking into a liter bike right now is to whip out as a cheat code occasionally.

If next season I feel like I’m ready to start some entry level racing then I can build out that SP.

At least that’s where I’m at today

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The rear brake cheat mode on the Ducati is certainly interesting.

I’m looking forward to the next group tests.

Let’s face it though, we are spoiled for choice and any of them are better than we are.

Honda - awesome and some money saved. Ducati - awesome and some money spent.

If the Honda feels good ergonomically then I might grab an SP, keep it simple and see what I think. If not then I know I’d be more than happy with the V4S. I’m leaning toward the simpler option and electronic suspension rather than building a bike out - that can always be done later.

SuperDomestique said:

Talk about mental gymnastics to rationalize a bike purchase.

What class will you race the V4S?

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I won’t, that’s the point.

spooky said:

The rear brake cheat mode on the Ducati is certainly interesting.

I’m looking forward to the next group tests.

Let’s face it though, we are spoiled for choice and any of them are better than we are.

Honda - awesome and some money saved. Ducati - awesome and some money spent.

If the Honda feels good ergonomically then I might grab an SP, keep it simple and see what I think. If not then I know I’d be more than happy with the V4S. I’m leaning toward the simpler option and electronic suspension rather than building a bike out - that can always be done later.

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The Honda as a chassis and a platform are faster than the Ducati in the right hands at an attainable level of modifications.

And with the new ergos it feels REALLY good to sit on, and probably has the best front end out there, meaning it’s the best bike braking marker to apex out there right now. Probably faster in a straight line drag race than just about anything else out there too IF you put the HRC Race ECU on it. But then you HAVE to go manual suspension.

As we talked about it me and my buddy agreed that we should try the spool valve suspension on the SP before going the HRC ECU route. It might be that good that you want to find a tune to unleash the power restriction on the SP and keep the new Ohlins electronic stuff.

But now if I’m keep the electronics stuff I have to revisit the Ducati. And if I’m comparing apples to apples, meaning both bike with a tune to open up the power, and keeping the newest rider aid technologies on both bikes, the Ducati is clearly better.

Whereas the SP is ULTIMATELY a better bike with the HRC Race ECU and manual suspension…IF you are enough of a rider to extract that higher level of performance from the bike.

I don’t think I am yet.

There riding style to factor in too. The SP has that amazing front end for diving into corners and is probably faster in a drag race in a straight line. So on its surface if it dives into corners better and is faster on the straights it should be a no brainer to get the SP.

But at least in my style of riding, all my speed on the straights comes from how hard and how early I can accelerate from apex to corner exit. In short, if you build more speed earlier you eliminate the faster straight line speed of a faster bike. I think with the vehicle observer stuff, the new Ohlins stuff, the new abs stuff on the Ducati I’ll be faster in that all important Apex to corner exit zone. It’s a freaking cheat code on the Ducati in that zone in that you can literally just twist the throttle as hard as you can a practically let the bikes electronics handle the rest.

Fireblade will be easier to work on and has better reliability. No more need to worry about your water pump/overheating or oil starvation issues that will eventually pop up. That alone will be worth it.

panibadboy said:

Ah, low life woke up off fentanyl and wants to make another lesson on how to ride fast with chicken strips

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Haha I'll know when I need a lesson on how to ride mediocre with too much lean angle

spooky said:

Just thinking out loud and trying to convince myself to go down the Honda route…

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Imagine buying one.. turning up in some random Honda forum .. and there is some wannabe .... banging on about geometry change by altering the forks a couple of mm…

andyb said:

Imagine buying one.. turning up in some random Honda forum .. and there is some wannabe .... banging on about geometry change by altering the forks a couple of mm…

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Oh ....… I hadn’t considered that. I think all forums have an ignore feature now?

You might have just given me a very solid reason for sticking with Ducati…

I think if you plan on having one bike for several years, and do ALOT of track riding, you can grow into the SP more…because you can start with all the Ohlins electronic stuff with its rider aids, and evolve the bike with the HRC ECU and manual suspension and turn it into an absolute weapon as your ability increases…so it’s a bike that can grow with you…whereas the Ducati is probably faster for 95% of track day riders off the show room floor but it is what it is, you aren’t gunna extract a ton more performance out of it with mods than how it comes.

andyb said:

Imagine buying one.. turning up in some random Honda forum .. and there is some wannabe .... banging on about geometry change by altering the forks a couple of mm…

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You joined a Honda forum?

Steven31371 said:

As we talked about it me and my buddy agreed that we should try the spool valve suspension on the SP before going the HRC ECU route. It might be that good that you want to find a tune to unleash the power restriction on the SP and keep the new Ohlins electronic stuff.

But now if I’m keep the electronics stuff I have to revisit the Ducati. And if I’m comparing apples to apples, meaning both bike with a tune to open up the power, and keeping the newest rider aid technologies on both bikes, the Ducati is clearly better.

Click to expand...

I’ve wondered if the electronic suspension is now good enough that it’s not something to avoid and I’m guessing that it’s more than good enough. Neither of them are lacking power in stock form. Sure, more power (in my very best Jeremy Clarkson voice) isn’t a bad thing, but they both have more than enough.

Jap stuff has had a reputation for not handling the front ABS as well as European stuff. I’ve no idea if Honda have got on top of this yet or if it’s still an issue (or just how hard you have to be braking before this becomes an issue).

I don’t know if the Ducati is clearly better - the marketing would say it is, and I’d guess it probably is, but by how much? Enough to make any significant difference to lap times? I’d assume that lap time improvements will be affected far more by my improvements than the difference in electronics between the two bikes.

Reviews of the 2024 Fireblade were pretty positive. Same for the V4. They are all awesome.

The rear brake stuff and DVO is interesting.

Steven31371 said:

I think if you plan on having one bike for several years, and do ALOT of track riding, you can grow into the SP more…because you can start with all the Ohlins electronic stuff with its rider aids, and evolve the bike with the HRC ECU and manual suspension and turn it into an absolute weapon as your ability increases…so it’s a bike that can grow with you…whereas the Ducati is probably faster for 95% of track day riders off the show room floor but it is what it is, you aren’t gunna extract a ton more performance out of it with mods than how it comes.

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Someone on here said that the HRC kit simply brings it up to the Pani level that you get from stock. No idea how much truth there is in that.

I agree with your post though. If you’re going all in then the base is the way to go, otherwise the SP can be eased into (and the Stylema R brakes are very good). Cast wheels though… what were they thinking.

I would really want to do something about that key though…

andyb said:

Imagine buying one.. turning up in some random Honda forum .. and there is some wannabe .... banging on about geometry change by altering the forks a couple of mm…

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Imagine coming to a Ducati forum and there's a narcissistic troll-y .... that thinks he hot .... but in reality he's a cold turd and too much of a ..... to post any lap times as evidence of his practical experience

spooky said:

Someone on here said that the HRC kit simply brings it up to the Pani level that you get from stock. No idea how much truth there is in that.

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Steven said this...

SuperDomestique said:

Steven said this...

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Nope

The HRC kit brings it above Pani levell in terms of ultimate capability…if you are a good enough rider to extract that performance.

The SP is a better bike. But I’m betting that the electronic rider aids of the 2025 V4 are so good that I will turn faster lap times on it for the next 6 months to a year.

I’m definately NOT waffling back to the V4S because I think it’s a better bike or that my riding will improve with it. The SP is for sure a better bike, and my riding would probably improve on it. On the V4S I actually think my riding skill might devolve if I ride too much.

But, my next liter bike is solely for personal ego trip in terms of lap times, and the more I dig into it, it looks like the V4S is a cheat code that will have me turning much faster lap times than my skill level would allow right.

But that’s the whole point of this purchase…I don’t plan on riding it much, and my RC 8C checks off all the boxes other than an ultimate lap time…it’s fast, analogue, improves your riding every time you ride, and is crazy fun to lap on.

So if I’m really self aware on what I want from my next liter bike, the Ducati is marginally a better fit. If I wanted the ultimate track weapon that I could grow into it would be the Fireblade SP.