Honda CBR1000RR-R SP 2024 vs V4R 2023

Steven31371 said:

Nope

The HRC kit brings it above Pani levell in terms of ultimate capability…if you are a good enough rider to extract that performance.

The SP is a better bike. But I’m betting that the electronic rider aids of the 2025 V4 are so good that I will turn faster lap times on it for the next 6 months to a year.

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Ya did haha

SuperDomestique said:

Ya did haha


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Okay so some nuance then…as I dove deeper into that bit about probably a better chassis that’s what I mean about the Honda can be made into a better bike than the Ducati for probably 2/3rds the price. The Ducati is at least one to three steps ahead on electronic rider aids that make a decent rider faster though.

I hear you. Honda has had many more years developing the perimeter frame and DSSA. I’ve never owned a Honda. I always thought they were boring. But after owning a Ducati these past 2 years has shown me that pretty looks and sound are just skin deep, not easy to get along with, and that they are high maintenance. I’ll take boring and easy to ride any day now.

What’s surprising is that there’s no group test out yet. You’d think now that V4S’s are arriving to dealers that Ducati would be clamoring to own the liter bike segment w this marketing and put their money where their mouths are. I think what we’ll hear is that the new V4S is a technological marvel with the electronics but reviewers will feel let down bc of how much electronic intervention is needed to ride the V4S quick. I think the new Fireblade SP is the sweet spot and will come out on top in the end. It has a smorgasbord of electronics to get it set up properly but it’s also analog (andy probably love a good anal log hehe) enough to make riding it fun. The BMW will probably be quickest and easiest to ride fast lacks character.



That being said, the last liter bike group test I could find back in 23 was this



No declared winner and seemed a bit contradictory but sounded like BMW ftw, followed by V4R which has the character

Posted the wrong link in the other thread for what I think is the coolest review yet.



At the 3:30 mark it starts needing out in a cool way.

Hot lap on the V4

Watch how much the DTC is turning on

Here’s the official HRC parts catalog for the the new Fireblade SP. I’m pretty sure you can order these parts from any Honda motorcycle dealer

spooky said:

Someone on here said that the HRC kit simply brings it up to the Pani level that you get from stock. No idea how much truth there is in that.

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This was the post.

panibadboy said:

V4S/R EVO3 is already at the level of HRC but without ability to tune stuff.

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Not sure if this was actually based on something or just assumptive.

Is anything…

Steven31371 said:

The HRC kit brings it above Pani levell in terms of ultimate capability…if you are a good enough rider to extract that performance.

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I presume you are referring primarily to the ability to adjust parameters such as throttle response by gear, etc. I guess that’s helpful at a certain (and very high) level of riding.

Ducati already have this stuff set in their electronics as far as I understand it, but without the adjustability of the HRC kit. I can’t imagine that I’d ever be fast enough to benefit from that adjustability in the HRC kit, although it’s great that you can get it. As you said, you can start with the SP and then add the HRC kit at a later date.

Ducati taking all that data from racing and applying it to their consumer bikes is pretty cool though.

I’m leaning toward the electronic suspension versions today.

spooky said:

Not sure if this was actually based on something or just assumptive.

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Based on lap times fast people show with V4S Evo3 electronics

There are so many details to grasp before making simplistic judgements assuming if it's HRC kit, it's new level.

You're probably not aware but Alpha doesn't sell Pro version of Motec to plebs, meaning BMW kit that you buy and what STK guy use are quite different. Same goes for HRC.

panibadboy said:

Based on lap times fast people show with V4S Evo3 electronics

There are so many details to grasp before making simplistic judgements assuming if it's HRC kit, it's new level.

You're probably not aware but Alpha doesn't sell Pro version of Motec to plebs, meaning BMW kit that you buy and what STK guy use are quite different. Same goes for HRC.

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I don’t really doubt what you said about HRC getting the Honda to the Ducati level but offering more adjustment. It sounds about right. The HRC kit also gives more power, which is of course needed.

I was under the impression that the HRC kit you can buy is what the race teams are using, the primary difference being that they know what they are doing.

spooky said:

I was under the impression that the HRC kit you can buy is what the race teams are using, the primary difference being that they know what they are doing

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If I make parallels with BMW motec - no. Pro firmware version gives you per sector TC and EBC settings for starters that standard doesn't have. I won't be surprised if there are multiple versions of HRC kit too.

V4S Evo electronics easily gives you 1.35 at Misano


Starting from the second spot on the grid after securing a front-row position in the qualifying held on Day 1 of the event, Bagnaia immediately took the lead and maintained it until the chequered flag. The Ducati Lenovo Team rider, who also set the fastest lap of the race with a time of 1:35.431, kept a consistent pace throughout the 10-lap race, crossing the finish line alone with more than a second advantage over the rest of the field


Just for reference, a mate on HRC Honda kit is 1.36+



Not scientific for sure.

But one would expect more difference for 5k + ECU and firmware init?

panibadboy said:

If I make parallels with BMW motec - no. Pro firmware version gives you per sector TC and EBC settings for starters that standard doesn't have. I won't be surprised if there are multiple versions of HRC kit too.

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A reasonable assumption, although it is an assumption.

Easily gives a 1:35? Maybe with Bagnaia on it. Those boys at WDW looked like they were pushing fairly hard at the front.

I have a feeling that pretty much every Superbike shootout I’ve watched has found the BMW to be fastest? Somehow we don’t seem to fancy getting one though.

spooky said:

Easily gives a 1:35? Maybe with Bagnaia on it

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He rides 20k Magnetti Marelli in MotoGP.

Him jumping on V4S electronics to make a lap that is faster than Luca Salvadori did on WSBK bike says it all

panibadboy said:

He rides 20k Magnetti Marelli in MotoGP.

Him jumping on V4S electronics to make a lap that is faster than Luca Salvadori did on WSBK bike says it all

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Not really…MotoGP riders are only allowed X amount of training hours on the GP bikes, so they ride thousands of laps on much lower spec’s bikes to train and stay in shape. In the Bagnaia 2025 promotional test vid for the V4S he said he had done thousands of laps on the previous gen V4

panibadboy said:

Him jumping on V4S electronics and makes a lap that is faster than Luca Salvadori did on WSBK bike says it all

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It says how capable the bike is for sure, but it also perhaps says as much about how good a rider he is. I wonder where Toprak, Bulega, etc, would be on MotoGP bikes.

It would be awesome to have a Superbike shootout of the current Honda, BMW and Ducati with Bagnaia, Marquez or Martin on them. Never going to happen of course - you couldn’t possibly have one of the Ducati guys going faster on a Honda or BMW…

Adjusting engine braking by RPM, and throttle response by gear etc is pretty cool.

This is what I mean by: The Pani is probably better out of the box because of the DOV using predictive algorithms combined with the abs new Ohlins stuff mean you can jump on, spring the suspension right and throw it in track mode and go fast very easily…but the much higher level of fairly intuitive adjustability in HRC stuff will get you to a more capable bike IN THE RIGHT HANDS.

You’d probably be into a Ducati a hundred K to get it to do what an HRC can with about $40k to $50k

Steven31371 said:

Adjusting engine braking by RPM, and throttle response by gear etc is pretty cool.

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It is, and quite accessible in terms of cost. Pretty awesome actually. BUT…

You’d have to be at quite an advanced level to benefit from the changes that you can make and then you’d have to actually know what you’re doing. Those videos from Obsession Engineering were interesting as you get some idea of how they are using data and rider feedback to determine the changes to make in the ECU, trying various things and finding what is or isn’t working. It looked like quite a steep learning curve. And then it will be different again for a different circuit. Playing around with this stuff would probably do more harm than good in the wrong hands (mine). I’m reminded of a quote by Jeff Goldblum’s character in Jurassic Park…

For your normal track day rider it’s clearly overkill, but at least the Honda has that potential. The chances are you’d never need it and so it’s a question of whether the difference in price is worth it for the DVO and rear brake feature. I doubt there’s anything in it between the Hypure calipers on the V4/S and the Stylema R on the SP. There’s more than enough ability to adjust settings on the V4 and I think the SP has similar stock adjustments available.

It would be interesting to know with certainty if the V4S is using the same spool tech as the SP.

Steven31371 said:

Not really…MotoGP riders are only allowed X amount of training hours on the GP bikes, so they ride thousands of laps on much lower spec’s bikes to train and stay in shape. In the Bagnaia 2025 promotional test vid for the V4S he said he had done thousands of laps on the previous gen V4

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This doesn't contradict my earlier point.

V4S Evo electronics is amazing out of the box, hence Pecco is able to achieve those amazing times and not crash like ....... Pedro

Standard stuff in Bemeer or Honda is ...., and you force to pay 5k+ to get to the level of Evo Ducati. Sure HRC has many more tunning options but thats just cherry on top

spooky said:

It is, and quite accessible in terms of cost. Pretty awesome actually. BUT…

You’d have to be at quite an advanced level to benefit from the changes that you can make and then you’d have to actually know what you’re doing. Those videos from Obsession Engineering were interesting as you get some idea of how they are using data and rider feedback to determine the changes to make in the ECU, trying various things and finding what is or isn’t working. It looked like quite a steep learning curve. And then it will be different again for a different circuit. Playing around with this stuff would probably do more harm than good in the wrong hands (mine). I’m reminded of a quote by Jeff Goldblum’s character in Jurassic Park…

For your normal track day rider it’s clearly overkill, but at least the Honda has that potential. The chances are you’d never need it and so it’s a question of whether the difference in price is worth it for the DVO and rear brake feature. I doubt there’s anything in it between the Hypure calipers on the V4/S and the Stylema R on the SP. There’s more than enough ability to adjust settings on the V4 and I think the SP has similar stock adjustments available.

It would be interesting to know with certainty if the V4S is using the same spool tech as the SP.

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It is using the Spool Valve stuff…it’s the mechanicals that allow the EC3 software to work properly. Without the spool valve the carts can’t react quick enough to work properly with the DVO and EC3. If it has Ohlins EC3.0 it has Spools Valves.