Honda CBR1000RR-R SP 2024 vs V4R 2023

Nice carpet !

Steven31371 said:

If you want a sexy street bike that you can tell people that’s it’s a track weapon you can do so credibly with the bike. But for die hard track guys, or a track only dedicated bike, it’s an almost silly option on all fronts, both on price and peak performance capabilities. I think there are very few riders that track a lot where the Ducati hits the sweet spot…it’s either way too much bike for track day guys that are at the slower end of A group and below…or not enough bike compared to the competition for the fastest track day riders. If you are one of those few that are right in the middle between being genuinely fast at track but not quite there yet…and you have a good amount of disposable income so it doesn’t matter to you that you can get the same performance for half the price elsewhere…well in that narrow band of consumers it’s a great option.

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Nice passage but totally pointless if you never been at Euro days.

Come to any of Rehm racing days at Misano, A1 or Mugello - its full of Ducatis running 1-2 seconds off CIV/IDM pace.

But thats not even the point. I know guys who buy SBK Ducati bikes, they are top 20% of A group but they just enjoy riding such a great machine.

SBK Honda ? meh, just another soulless jap bike.

Steven31371 said:

That exhaust cost…wait for it…$1600…not $7500

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And they still made a profit on it.

To be fair, the Ducati exhaust has two cans…

The akra is 1/4 to a1/3 of the bikes cost on a Panigale, its one of my few gripes about the brand, It's just not good value.

Paul G said:

The akra is 1/4 to a1/3 of the bikes cost on a Panigale, its one of my few gripes about the brand, It's just not good value.

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You have to look at the package as a whole.

I already posted this in another thread, but if you're serious about trackday riding (or amateur style racing), on BMW or Honda platforms you would have to spend 5-6k extra on ECU and loom to get to the same level of V4S with DTC EVO3. Or like the case with BMW, opt out for a hacky solution - RS2E (it works great, but you are out of warranty as they flash original ECU).

Or the braking system. On Honda - you want to replace it all. On V4S - Stylema/MC are amazing - and can easily get you decent times in vicinity of pro-riders.


Basically each brand positions their bike slightly differently and they are not head to head comparable.

panibadboy said:

You have to look at the package as a whole.

I already posted this in another thread, but if you're serious about trackday riding (or amateur style racing), on BMW or Honda platforms you would have to spend 5-6k extra on ECU and loom to get to the same level of V4S with DTC EVO3. Or like the case with BMW, opt out for a hacky solution - RS2E (it works great, but you are out of warranty as they flash original ECU).

Or the braking system. On Honda - you want to replace it all. On V4S - Stylema/MC are amazing - and can easily get you decent times in vicinity of pro-riders.


Basically each brand positions their bike slightly differently and they are not head to head comparable.

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True, but you’re already paying a lot more for a V4S over the Fireblade SP. The price of the exhaust cannot really be justified. With Honda you’d get the ECU, loom and Akrapovic for somewhere around the same price as you’d pay just for the DP Akrapovic.

Why would you want to replace all of the brake setup on the Honda? The Fireblade SP has a Brembo setup with Stylema R calipers. The V4S has no advantage there.

How's the honda in terms of built quality, underneath the fairings? I was quite shocked (that's an understatement) when I took the fairing of my ninja off the first time. As a German by DNA and former ferrari owner I had my doubts about Italian craftsmanship but can't say ANYTHING negative about the panigale!
Is the Honda build in Japan or SEA somewhere?

chris838 said:

How's the honda in terms of built quality, underneath the fairings? I was quite shocked (that's an understatement) when I took the fairing of my ninja off the first time. As a German by DNA and former ferrari owner I had my doubts about Italian craftsmanship but can't say ANYTHING negative about the panigale!
Is the Honda build in Japan or SEA somewhere?

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No idea where it’s built, but you’d probably be surprised if something from Honda wasn’t put together well. I saw a build thread where the guy was commenting on the high quality of the screws used on the Honda, which is an accusation you could never throw at Ducati.

panibadboy said:

You have to look at the package as a whole.

I already posted this in another thread, but if you're serious about trackday riding (or amateur style racing), on BMW or Honda platforms you would have to spend 5-6k extra on ECU and loom to get to the same level of V4S with DTC EVO3. Or like the case with BMW, opt out for a hacky solution - RS2E (it works great, but you are out of warranty as they flash original ECU).

Or the braking system. On Honda - you want to replace it all. On V4S - Stylema/MC are amazing - and can easily get you decent times in vicinity of pro-riders.


Basically each brand positions their bike slightly differently and they are not head to head comparable.

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The stock ECU on the 2024 and 2025 Fireblade is significantly upgraded and can do most of what the V4S ECU can do without the $800 programming update that REQUIRES the $7500 exhuast to get. So to surpass the capabilities of the Stock Honda ECU you need to spend $8300.

It costs about $4500 to put the HRC ECU on the Honda but now you have also far surpassed the capabilities of the Ducati ECU and software even with the required $8300 spend to get the trick software on the Ducati.

So only if you spend an additional $8300 the Ducati software and ECU surpass the stock Honda ECU and Software….but then you can spend $4500 on the Honda and get real WSBK software and tuning capabilities that FAR surpass what it takes $8300 with Ducati to get.

Also the Honda comes with the latest Stylema R iteration on the front calipers and the exact same suspension as the Ducati.

chris838 said:

How's the honda in terms of built quality, underneath the fairings? I was quite shocked (that's an understatement) when I took the fairing of my ninja off the first time. As a German by DNA and former ferrari owner I had my doubts about Italian craftsmanship but can't say ANYTHING negative about the panigale!
Is the Honda build in Japan or SEA somewhere?

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Honda is sort of known for extreme reliability.

Fireblade is for sure 100% made in Japan. Japanese quality is 1000% better and more reliable than Italian.

panibadboy said:

You have to look at the package as a whole.

I already posted this in another thread, but if you're serious about trackday riding (or amateur style racing), on BMW or Honda platforms you would have to spend 5-6k extra on ECU and loom to get to the same level of V4S with DTC EVO3. Or like the case with BMW, opt out for a hacky solution - RS2E (it works great, but you are out of warranty as they flash original ECU).

Or the braking system. On Honda - you want to replace it all. On V4S - Stylema/MC are amazing - and can easily get you decent times in vicinity of pro-riders.


Basically each brand positions their bike slightly differently and they are not head to head comparable.

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Pani, do you think evo 3 makes a difference? Pretty sure when I got the full system they only flashed a new fuel map, not evo 3 (pretty sure anyway)

Steven31371 said:

Honda is sort of known for extreme reliability.

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Otherwise known as "The engine company" they are indeed typically well built and the top end of Honda is surreal. Take a look at a 213V-S or for that matter even a Rune if you want to see what they are capable of.

MotoGP program seems to be lacking a bit...

Thats got very little to do with this discussion or their expertise as a manufacturer, Honda is to motorcycling as 3M is to anything that comes in a roll or in a can; its good quality as in you dont need to even ask. The other point about their GP effort is that at Barcelona for example Zarco was .83 of a second off pole in 10th i.e. the top ten were less than a second apart! Less than 2 seconds covered all 23 bikes, no one is "slow" but if you follow the technical side there are many reasons for why they are in this position.

Paul G said:

Thats got very little to do with this discussion or their expertise as a manufacturer, Honda is to motorcycling as 3M is to anything that comes in a roll or in a can; its good quality as in you dont need to even ask. The other point about their GP effort is that at Barcelona for example Zarco was .83 of a second off pole in 10th i.e. the top ten were less than a second apart! Less than 2 seconds covered all 23 bikes, no one is "slow" but if you follow the technical side there are many reasons for why they are in this position.

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Yep. Marginal gains. Those last tenths of a second are the most difficult

Japan is leaps and bounds above Italy when it comes to modern engineering/machining. Just ask any engineer or machinist. In terms of precise accurate machining, I’d go with something made in US, Japan, Germany, or China over something made elsewhere.

The Rune was a failure. Their MotoGP program is circling the drain. Neither has anything to do with manufacturing quality but rather poor decisions being made at the corporate level.

Going off-topic, I was surprised to see that the new Aprilia RSV4 is using Ohlins EC2 instead of EC3, despite being fitted with the latest Hypure calipers. It seems an odd choice.

I’m still undecided on getting the new V4S, stick with the R or have a change and go for the Honda, but I’m leaning very heavily toward the Honda. If I go that way then it’s either going for the base and building up a pretty cool track bike or just get the SP, put some forged wheels on and enjoy it as it is, as I’m sure it’s more than enough. The SP is probably the better option.

The V4S would be an easy choice as well. With what I’m hearing about Ohlins EC3, I don’t think the accepted idea of getting the base and upgrading is necessarily still the best way to go, unless you want to go down the bottomless pit route. Obviously I’ve only sat on the Ducati, but I reckon they’ve done an awesome job and having improved data integrated into the dash with WiFi connection would be very convenient.

For some reason, BMW doesn’t interest me at all. I was told that the Honda is great on entry and the engine and quality are awesome but I was also pushed toward the Yamaha GYTR and told that it makes up a lot of it on exit drive. The GYTR is still a pretty nice setup for the money. I reckon I’d wish I’d gone Ducati or Honda if I got a Yamaha, although the R1 is by far the most popular option at track days, with plenty of GYTR being used.

At this stage I’m likely to give Honda a try, but the V4S is still in with a shout. Worst case scenario is that I stick with my R for the coming season, which is not the worst of worst case scenarios - I love that bike, but I’d want to get the RADE Garage tank - having sat on a V4 with that tank and also the new V4S, the narrower tank definitely makes a positive difference. That would mean sinking more money into the R, which isn’t my preferred option.

Regardless, I’m looking forward to getting past winter and back on track rather than talking about it. Winter sucks.

Steven31371 said:

but then you can spend $4500 on the Honda and get real WSBK software and tuning capabilities that FAR surpass what it takes $8300 with Ducati to get.

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I will pay money to subscribe if you do some vlogs thats just recording you using this software.