How good is the Ohlins EC 2.0?

I have no doubt that the mentioned fork/shock setups can be dialed in to work for road, track and anything in between. It’s just that I’m quite curious about the adaptive function on the Ohlins.

Although I’m planning to use my bike mainly on the road I will be tracking it occasionally, but until I get some more experience (1-2 years at least) I don’t plan on using slicks and setting lap records.


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Vatican City, Monaco and San Marino are principalities, and not countries.

Not sure if Andorra or Liechtenstein is the smallest country in Europe.

RickD996 said:

Vatican City, Monaco and San Marino are principalities, and not countries.

Not sure if Andorra or Liechtenstein is the smallest country in Europe.

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Sorry that this discussion turned into geography, but Vatican City, Monaco and San Marino are certainly countries. Principality means that the country or vassal is ruled by a prince or equivalent. So Monaco for example is both principality and a country. But Vatican City and San Marino are not principalities. San Marino is a republic.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-17615784https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-17994868https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-17842338

Lots of discussion on this subject about "why electronic suspension?" and lot's of opinions.
Here is Ducati's explanation. Check video
It's not a lazy way to turn knobs. It is addressing the compromise that is fixed suspension. It was originally developed for MotoGP.
It has sensors that can make adjustments on the fly that would otherwise be impossible. For example at the apex of a turn in full lean on a bumpy surface, you want plush suspension. However, at the end of a straight going into a tight curve you want stiff suspension braking as hard as you can. It can change from one to the other in split seconds calculating a lot of what's going on like lean angle, pitch roll and yaw, braking, accelerating, and surface feedback - then adjusts.

If you don't want the dynamic suspension, you can turn it off.

I've been trying both on the track and off and I have to say I think it's pretty great. I don't feel anything intrusive or surprising like some of the early electronic systems like traction control. Used to be very noticeable. I only notice it when I'm going hard and I hit a bumpy section, the bumps go soft after a blink.
Some say go fixed at the track, because you can set up for the same 4 miles and leave it.
Others say, you can get better handling going dynamic as you can go between settings for different aspects of any track on the fly.

Alkhater said:

I have no doubt that the mentioned fork/shock setups can be dialed in to work for road, track and anything in between. It’s just that I’m quite curious about the adaptive function on the Ohlins.

Although I’m planning to use my bike mainly on the road I will be tracking it occasionally, but until I get some more experience (1-2 years at least) I don’t plan on using slicks and setting lap records.


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Someone always has to ruin it with actual real life experience, looks like team base plus upgrades is on the ropes

Vbreeze said:

Lots of discussion on this subject about "why electronic suspension?" and lot's of opinions.
Here is Ducati's explanation. Check video
It's not a lazy way to turn knobs. It is addressing the compromise that is fixed suspension. It was originally developed for MotoGP.
It has sensors that can make adjustments on the fly that would otherwise be impossible. For example at the apex of a turn in full lean on a bumpy surface, you want plush suspension. However, at the end of a straight going into a tight curve you want stiff suspension braking as hard as you can. It can change from one to the other in split seconds calculating a lot of what's going on like lean angle, pitch roll and yaw, braking, accelerating, and surface feedback - then adjusts.

If you don't want the dynamic suspension, you can turn it off.

I've been trying both on the track and off and I have to say I think it's pretty great. I don't feel anything intrusive or surprising like some of the early electronic systems like traction control. Used to be very noticeable. I only notice it when I'm going hard and I hit a bumpy section, the bumps go soft after a blink.
Some say go fixed at the track, because you can set up for the same 4 miles and leave it.
Others say, you can get better handling going dynamic as you can go between settings for different aspects of any track on the fly.

Click to expand...

It's .... mate.

MotoGP never used electronic suspension.

Having plush and stiff suspension is perfectly achieved via manual hi/lo compression settings.

Unfortunately you trying it at 2.40 tempo at Mugello says absolutely nothing. It's just garbage data.

Manual suspension is there for a reason. Every racing team uses it for a reason too. It provides:

1. Lots of room for adjustments

2. Predictability

None of electronics is there yet. Maybe it will be one day, but it is not in 2021.

2.40 at Mugello ouch

We been using it drag racing pro stock cars for over a decade

What does F1 use?

What everyone seems to overlook in this electronic suspension debate, is that dynamic and fixed can be assigned to each riding mode. So for street you can have a dynamically adjustable suspension. With race, you can have a fixed suspension. Granted for a track only bike I’d take a suspension with fixed adjusters for weight and simplicity. But, not by choice, that’s not the riding I get to do 99% of the time. The electronic suspension gives you a lot more choices which is only a positive thing.

If anything, I choose to be more critical of OEM spring choices. They should be segmented by market...but I digress...

A) It's been made against the rules for MotoGP as an unfair advantage not because it's not good. That's politics not an evaluation of tech. Look up the history of that ........ Ducati V Honda goes back decades. Some of it makes sense. Not all of it. Eg. wings. When only Ducati had it dialed, illegal. When everyone got, ok! Just like Magneti Marelli Traction control. Ducati had to give the software to everyone or get engine limitations. Honda does what the fk it wants no penalties.
B) Scott Redding did 1'34.5..." on a stock V4S at Valencia with slicks & Akra.
Hey look: Official Valencia WSBK lap records:Best lap: Troy Bayliss AUS Ducati 1min 34.599secs.
C) "I'm superior because ... so only my opining blah blah..." is not an argument. That's just plain lame-ass attitude, grow up.
D) You can turn it on and off / set it to different ride modes / change on the fly mid-lap. Can't do that kind of testing non-electric sorry. Not possible.
E) "Blah blah my bike is the best blah all the other ones are a mistake especially the new ones blah blah especially bikes I've never ridden" WTF is that? Been going on since 1903. Get a 999 cranked hard, use your legs as suspension like the good ol days and let's see what a "man" you are. Geezes pathetic.
F) Different bikes are good for different people. Ride your own ride and stop pissing on everyone for not being you with your bike. Online ego trip boring.

Exactly:
"What everyone seems to overlook in this electronic suspension debate, is that dynamic and fixed can be assigned to each riding mode. So for street you can have a dynamically adjustable suspension. With race, you can have a fixed suspension. Granted for a track only bike I’d take a suspension with fixed adjusters for weight and simplicity. But, not by choice, that’s not the riding I get to do 99% of the time. The electronic suspension gives you a lot more choices which is only a positive thing.

If anything, I choose to be more critical of OEM spring choices. They should be segmented by market...but I digress..."

panibadboy said:

It's .... mate.

MotoGP never used electronic suspension.

Having plush and stiff suspension is perfectly achieved via manual hi/lo compression settings.

Unfortunately you trying it at 2.40 tempo at Mugello says absolutely nothing. It's just garbage data.

Manual suspension is there for a reason. Every racing team uses it for a reason too. It provides:

1. Lots of room for adjustments

2. Predictability

None of electronics is there yet. Maybe it will be one day, but it is not in 2021.

Click to expand...

B) no idea what suspension setup he had. Do you have any ideas ? Same springs as OEM ? Same fork offsets ?

Wherever Scott goes on trackdays, he has a mechanic with him.

Don14R said:

What does F1 use?

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Any type of amature to pro level racing will use mechanic suspension.

The rear differential for a pro stock car costs 200k these days. It is a top level pro class and they use electric

What springs and settings were in his suspension is irrelevant. The bike had electric suspension and matched Bayliss lap record

The pro racing argument is invalid because of cost regulations as mentioned earlier, and to my recent knowledge Ducati have tested active suspension in MotoGP.

I think for now, my conclusion is that the Ohlins EC 2.0 is not a hindrance in any significant way and that it can be beneficial for everyday use.

My dilemma was caused by the fact that there’s a base model sitting on the showroom floor while I’ve been waiting to get a Dark Stealth S since December. As you can imagine, my patience has thinned a little so I’ve been considering my options.

Well I’ve been promised that my bike is being shipped today, finally. I got a bunch of parts that have been taking up space in my apartment for months, so I’m looking forward to all that and the bike. I’ll keep everyone posted.

Thanks for all your input.


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I'm not sure cost argument is even an argument. It's electronics, not rare metals that cost fortune.

Every MotoGP or SBK bike is fully of electronics already: ECU, IMU, dataloggers.

Current FIM rules for WSBK is that ECU and related costs must be capped at certain level. They surely can do the same with electronic suspension.

panibadboy said:

I'm not sure cost argument is even an argument. It's electronics, not rare metals that cost fortune.

Every MotoGP or SBK bike is fully of electronics already: ECU, IMU, dataloggers.

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Agreed, however; it’s not just about material costs. The development costs for these systems would be considerable and they would have to be affordable to all teams. Keep in mind that all suspension manufacturers are 3rd party, so it’s not something that can be adopted on a budget or price point.

I’m not saying that the tech is or isn’t at a level where professional race teams can make use of it, but there must be a reason it’s banned.

Lastly, there’s Ducati’s attempts to workaround these rules to gain advantage. This is clear evidence that there’s much to be gained.

Some interesting reading here The story behind Ducati’s new MotoGP shapeshifter - Motor Sport Magazine


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Alkhater said:

Agreed, however; it’s not just about material costs. The development costs for these systems would be considerable and they would have to be affordable to all teams. Keep in mind that all suspension manufacturers are 3rd party, so it’s not something that can be adopted on a budget or price point.

I’m not saying that the tech is or isn’t at a level where professional race teams can make use of it, but there must be a reason it’s banned.

Lastly, there’s Ducati’s attempts to workaround these rules to gain advantage. This is clear evidence that there’s much to be gained.

Some interesting reading here The story behind Ducati’s new MotoGP shapeshifter - Motor Sport Magazine


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Click to expand...

All ECU manufacturers are 3rd party as well. In WSBK only BMW makes its own software.

There is zero additional costs there. If electronic suspension was even remotely useful on track it would be long time mass adopted.

You missed one of the most important point of my earlier reply to Mugello guy, one of benefits of mechanical suspension is _predicatbility_.

No doubt electronics are useful for an average Fat Joe on street who doesn't even know what type of springs in there, but racing sets completely different requirements.

panibadboy said:

All ECU manufacturers are 3rd party as well. In WSBK only BMW makes its own software.

There is zero additional costs there. If electronic suspension was even remotely useful on track it would be long time mass adopted.

You missed one of the most important point of my earlier reply to Mugello guy, one of benefits of mechanical suspension is _predicatbility_.

No doubt electronics are useful for an average Fat Joe on street who doesn't even know what type of springs in there, but racing sets completely different requirements.

Click to expand...

How would it be zero additional costs? I’m not saying they should ditch their ECUs for carbs and adopt electronic suspension, I’m saying that using both is definitely more expensive.

Predictability? You make it sound like it’s alien tech. Don’t forget that it’s all programmed by humans to do specific tasks that is data logged, developed, refined and the process goes on. That’s where the cost is.

I’m a purist at heart and I appreciate the analogue approach so I know where you’re coming from, but there’s no denying what is achievable with electronics and an open budget.


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Alkhater said:

How would it be zero additional costs? I’m not saying they should ditch their ECUs for carbs and adopt electronic suspension, I’m saying that using both is definitely more expensive.

Predictability? You make it sound like it’s alien tech. Don’t forget that it’s all programmed by humans to do specific tasks that is data logged, developed, refined and the process goes on. That’s where the cost is.

I’m a purist at heart and I appreciate the analogue approach so I know where you’re coming from, but there’s no denying what is achievable with electronics and an open budget.


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It's a fixed cost of X amortized across 20 teams over 10+ years horizon. It's next to zero vs. engine that needs replacement every single race on 2+ bikes per rider.

Pretty sure it is currently very hard to program something that depends on geometry of the bike (rake, pivot, swing arm, chain, gearing, fork offsets, rear linkeage, spring rates and etc), tire profiles, lean angle, GPS position of the bike, the line rider takes into the turn considering there are no overtakes. It's very involved computational task with no clear algorithm how to adjust stuff. And what's worst, it can change from line to line easily.

The last thing you want in the fight for podium is a rider to have zero confidence in his front end because it changing all the time.

panibadboy said:

It's a fixed cost of X amortized across 20 teams over 10+ years horizon. It's next to zero vs. engine that needs replacement every single race on 2+ bikes per rider.

Pretty sure it is currently very hard to program something that depends on geometry of the bike (rake, pivot, swing arm, chain, gearing, fork offsets, rear linkeage, spring rates and etc), tire profiles, lean angle, GPS position of the bike, the line rider takes into the turn considering there are no overtakes. It's very involved computational task with no clear algorithm how to adjust stuff. And what's worst, it can change from line to line easily.

The last thing you want in the fight for podium is a rider to have zero confidence in his front end because it changing all the time.

Click to expand...

Not much harder than traction control I imagine. Furthermore; even with completely mechanical systems, temperature and degradation are factors that influence predictability constantly. Tire temperature, wear, fuel capacity, fork/shock oil viscosity. All these things vary from beginning to end of races.


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Alkhater said:

Furthermore; even with completely mechanical systems...

...influence predictability constantly.

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You guys with the all mechanical suspension should really consider switching over to carburetors

Way more consistent : )