How good is the Ohlins EC 2.0?

You just perfectly outlined the reason a computerized system is such a huge advantage. Take just 3 adjustable points with 30 possibilities each, how many possibilities are there?
Add calculations for how it might be optimized for the 3 dimensional variations in weight, momentum, accelerations shifts, wheel distance in brake compression, almost infinate surface interaction variations, and all the other things you just outlined and you have math that looks like lottery odds. The V4S has a computer making those calculations at 22 times a second and adjusting WITHIN setup parameters in dynamic mode. Which you can turn off and go manual. How do you do that mechanically? Stop, get off, get a wrench, guess, look at tires, think about each corner, talk to your mechanics, and make a compromise.

Most of the time companies ask me to invent something, they want take the finesse out of the situation. It sounds philosophically like a sad human degradation of abilities. (That's actually a real problem) However, if the tech makes a change in the hierarchy of abilities and work loads, it's good. That is to say, what you have to think about is less banal and you can therefor focus on a higher level of solution operations, like strategy or the art of the mater, it's great.

In short, you can ride better with less wrenching effort and fewer compromises.
To your point, if you're racing and that's against the rules, make or buy an R. But that's not the discussion question of this thread.

panibadboy said:

It's a fixed cost of X amortized across 20 teams over 10+ years horizon. It's next to zero vs. engine that needs replacement every single race on 2+ bikes per rider.

Pretty sure it is currently very hard to program something that depends on geometry of the bike (rake, pivot, swing arm, chain, gearing, fork offsets, rear linkeage, spring rates and etc), tire profiles, lean angle, GPS position of the bike, the line rider takes into the turn considering there are no overtakes. It's very involved computational task with no clear algorithm how to adjust stuff. And what's worst, it can change from line to line easily.

The last thing you want in the fight for podium is a rider to have zero confidence in his front end because it changing all the time.

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Vbreeze said:

You just perfectly outlined the reason a computerized system is such a huge advantage. Take just 3 adjustable points with 30 possibilities each, how many possibilities are there?
Add calculations for how it might be optimized for the 3 dimensional variations in weight, momentum, accelerations shifts, wheel distance in brake compression, almost infinate surface interaction variations, and all the other things you just outlined and you have math that looks like lottery odds. The V4S has a computer making those calculations at 22 times a second and adjusting WITHIN setup parameters in dynamic mode. Which you can turn off and go manual. How do you do that mechanically? Stop, get off, get a wrench, guess, look at tires, think about each corner, talk to your mechanics, and make a compromise.

Most of the time companies ask me to invent something, they want take the finesse out of the situation. It sounds philosophically like a sad human degradation of abilities. (That's actually a real problem) However, if the tech makes a change in the hierarchy of abilities and work loads, it's good. That is to say, what you have to think about is less banal and you can therefor focus on a higher level of solution operations, like strategy or the art of the mater, it's great.

In short, you can ride better with less wrenching effort and fewer compromises.
To your point, if you're racing and that's against the rules, make or buy an R. But that's not the discussion question of this thread.

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Well written and thought provoking response. :thumbsup:

Assuming that’s all valid, why then do I generally hear that skilled racers subjectively report preferring manual suspension?

craig bush said:

Well written and thought provoking response. :thumbsup:

Assuming that’s all valid, why then do I generally hear that skilled racers subjectively report preferring manual suspension?

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Likely because it’s predictable and the riders knows how it will behave in various conditions.

Everyone thought Garlits was nutz for putting the engine behind the cockpit

Don14R said:

Everyone thought Garlits was nutz for putting the engine behind the cockpit

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Active suspension was featured in F1 as back as 1993

And racetracks are predictable, usually well surfaced and you go round over and over again so with a mechanical setup its also predictable unless you are Rossi who just cant get any grip since 2017. Another factor may well be cost, the availability of high spec mechanical suspension components vs that and the additional ecu/software and development.

Take 2 different lines for almost any corner and you get a different surface

brad8266 said:

Likely because it’s predictable and the riders knows how it will behave in various conditions.

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Are you asserting that they prefer the predictable suspension even if they turn faster lap times with the electronic suspension? Obviously not, right?

So they must be faster on manual, but if electronic is definitively superior, how can this be?

1’34.5 is slow : )

yep, George Lorenzo would lap you in 25 laps or so on his motogp bike

Active suspension is a marketing gimmick to get you to spend more on the bike. Nuff said. I would put a hard bet that over 80%,of the guys who bought an active suspension bike even played with it much like all the other goofy handle bar switched gimmicks. Street bike. Throttle, clutch, brake and some riding skills. Active suspension is fantastic tied to a well programmed electronics package on an F1 platform. It’s not going to make a .... bit of difference in your ability to pick up your Latte.

There are a lot of really good riders here that track their bikes sometimes exclusively who I’m sure are setting up and getting the most out of the electronic assisted rider aids but for the rest of you, myself included, you need to have a chat with the reality genie. Most buyers never engage any of that stuff but pay a premium for it cause they drank the cool aid. Fact

Endo, have to agree with that mostly. My recent fall at the track was preceded by me switching to wet mode since it was beginning to rain. Usually I get a feel by the spots on the visor and ride accordingly and dont switch modes but I thought why not- its wet and Ive got it so why not try it out? I havent used wet for years, usual settings are race with dtc 1 or 2, dwc off, abs 2- remember this is a street bike. In wet, the bike was horrible- gutless, abs way too intrusive and it didnt prevent me losing the rear. In fact it probably contributed as I distinctly remember "meh its wet mode so give it beans and the 'tronics will sort it out"

False sense of security and a layer of algorithm between my mind and reality.

Good post Paul and like I said you are one of those guys who can appreciate the difference and give feedback accordingly. Me and the rest of the Starbucks jockeys out there should stick to learning and honing the basics before playing with buttons.

I take my GSA to Starbucks. Ducati is strictly for racing guys leaving Cars & Coffee for 200 yards. I'd go longer, but at that point they realize their car costs 10x my bike/wife starts yelling at them.

How funny

That’s exactly why I have mine and there are a bunch of those guys around here

A bunch

So this thread is closed doc?

craig bush said:

Are you asserting that they prefer the predictable suspension even if they turn faster lap times with the electronic suspension? Obviously not, right?

So they must be faster on manual, but if electronic is definitively superior, how can this be?

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I have no clue what the top half a percentile of racers prefer or why they do. For me, I don’t want my suspension damping to adjust while I’m riding. I set mine up based on the track, track conditions, surface etc.. I want to know how it will behave assuming I stick to my plan. That helps inform me as to how it will behave if I come off plan ie.. have to swerve around a downed rider in a hair pin. With the adaptive I just don’t know exactly how it will react in those events and this for me increases the level of risk to one I don’t want to take when I can set it and know how it will behave. Will I perhaps lose time, I dunno jury is out on that but my confidence is higher with my setup that I know works for me and how I ride. Confidence is a critical part of going fast. Take that for what it’s worth, especially since I’m not that fast either lol

I only bought an S model because I got 6k or so off on it, otherwise probably would had went with base model. I do like the fact that I don’t need a tool to set compression/rebound though.

This is kind of a dumb discussion in my opinion because riders have different needs and desires.... street, track, racing, etc.

I'm 51 and just into sport bike riding for the last year. Started with a 959 Corse and was completely sold on a V4S when I rode it. Immediately traded the 959 in. The active suspension was 1/2 the reason I bought it. I've since put 6000 miles on it in 6 months on the street and 4 track days. No post on here trashing active suspension will take the smile off of my 6000 smiles!

Interesting so you started in a 959 Corse then rode the V4S and you’re off to the races. That you are having a blast on the V4S I’m sure has reassured conference in your decision. You said that 1/2 the reason you choose the bike was the active suspension. Can you go into some of the mechanical nuances that would cause someone to validate the purchase of an active suspension bike vs an identical bike with a manual suspension that was set up properly (as your e suspension should have been as well) just wondering if you had the identical bike with say the FGR forks and TTX shock if the smile on your face would be comparable to where it is now.

Agreed. I don’t think anyone alleged that this specific system makes a rider faster on track, not even Ducati. I think it’s even safe to say that it’s designed for road comfort and safety in this case, kind of like ABS but for (carbs) suspension. The added option of being able to turn it off is clearly targeted for track use.


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The difference between my pre setup stock suspension and post setup ohlins is night and day, but that said even now the single biggest smile factor comes from......... new tires! Thisr new skins make the bike feel amazing, that feeling is gone within a few hundred road ks or one track day.