how to hang off

The hump is not that big . But i ll not be flat but arched over so i ll have to extend even further ..

I see a lot of pics with way to much pressure on the bars... good bod position is all legs and core.. I don't use anything on the bars.. I can wiggle my fingers and roll through a turn with basically no pressure but slight inputs to correct the lines
scoot the butt back.. go halfsies.. half on half off.. line the side of your bike up with the whole center of your body and let your core/ abs legs for the work of supporting you.. lower your chest to the tank and look through the turn.. you want your hear at minimum looking right through where a mirror would have been
I literally lay my chest on my tank and slide back and forth
don't be afraid to slow yourself down to work on your BP,
sit on your bike in the pits on the stands.. hand some one hold the bike for good measure and do it.. put yourself in the spot.. it will feel like your falling off.. it will feel unnatural. but it will get easier and more comfortable the more you work on it

WE ALL HAVE TO REMEMBER.. you are not a GP rider.. tire tech and those bikes can reach up to 64*.. average slicks are about 55* that is a HUGE difference. you have to be mindful of that...
things to help get you in good BP but not mandatory.. are adjustable rear sets and clip ons.. clip ons help a bunch as you can chang the width/ angle in your arms and wrists

here are 2 pics.. it doesn't matter what bike your on. the mechanics are the same.
first is me on my buddies 848, second is on my wifes CBR600rr
the 848 is a lot wider than the cbr.. but non the less my BP is extremely similar

Ljuice26 said:

This is a pic of my boy John from SoCal. He races as well.

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Cool pic.

He appears to be exaggerating his hang off the bike compared with his bikes lean angle (for the pic I assume). Look at the awkward kink in his left wrist. Now compare with Waf's pic of Marquez in post#6 or MrBrett's hand to forearm angle. Check out this pic of Marquez dragging his elbow: http://www.mcnews.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/MotoGP_2014_Test_Sepang1_Day2_Marquez_Front.jpg

@Kope, if you can present a flatter, smaller, more slipstream profile while staying relaxed you will become less fatigued and faster (after your body adjusts to the new positions). Thanks for asking a question all riders can benefit from, especially me.

@Prince, thanks for the vids, very simple and logical explanations and only 4 mins long. Being constantly locked in with the knees and not leaning on the bars can be tricky. Riding too close to the tank can prevent a smooth transition.

Kope, it also depends on your size. I don't know how tall you are but I am 184 tall and last year during a race weekend, someone told me I was not leaning enough off the bike and should have a look at his style(he is about 170). For him it was maybe comfortable, but for me it was not. Was anyway faster without hanging off the bike that much. What I want to say here, is that you have to ride in a way, that is most comfortable for you. If you are quite big and it is difficult to hang off, you just have to make sure you move your body the right way coming out of the corner in order to be able to put the power on the track.
Attached 2 pics of me and one pic of Andy Meklau(Suzuki), who is quite tall and sits on the bike in a right up way. With this style he is still winning the Austrian, Polish and Alpe Adria Championship in SBK and Stock 1000 at an age of 46.

Kope, Kevin, your arms are too straight.
Bend the elbows and get your body ducked in more, closer to the rank, and crank your neck to face up more.
Right hand should twist the throttle like you would turn a screwdriver. If you can't, that means too much weight on your arms and your elbows are not bent enough.

Drop your inside shoulder - as many have said you need to relax on the bars mate, chest to the tank. there is a great bit of footage on the recent GP where Marc and Danny camera show their hands on the throttle and brakes and they are barely holding onto the bars - incredibly light touch. Relax let the bike do its job

Best way to prefect riding position is to get in perfect position while bike is stationary. Get help to do this and photo and redo until where you want it. Then while in position attach one end of a fishing line to the chin guard on your helmet and the other to a # 10 hook barely resting on the lower portion of your nut sack. This will help to keep you low on the bike.

BusaDuc said:

Drop your inside shoulder - as many have said you need to relax on the bars mate, chest to the tank. there is a great bit of footage on the recent GP where Marc and Danny camera show their hands on the throttle and brakes and they are barely holding onto the bars - incredibly light touch. Relax let the bike do its job

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Agreed. That lets you push your outside shoulder in the direction of the turn and uncross your body.

From long, long ago, on bikes that are now dead. Any pix like this on my Pani would unfortunately be from a police chase cam as I've yet to track my R. Kawi factory 1/4 turn race throttle was tits though...

Prince Albert said:

I try to use Andy Ibbott's info allot when hanging off, a' la knee to knee...etc, etc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zt9lB-LErQ4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHJY74495xs

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Tx Bert !

interesting point : don't get up , slide... and there we all go looking for sticky seatcovers... how about that !

round up so far :

1. many thanks for all your generous input. there is already something in here for most of us..

2. even though its my nature to go look for technical solutions ( change something to the bike) i realise that it s going to be me that has to get the position. But still my size does not help and i'll have to take that into account. and i will need the adjustments to the bike to get me close. ( Kraai - thanks for being as tall as me and still being fast all the same! )

3. i' ve discovered a link between loading the front and tightening the turn. Perhaps to me this is the most important one as i know i tend to stretch my arms that puts my total weight package back. and that s probably why i tend to run wide.. or at least one of the major causes to do so. it is now clear that to get more forward, i first have to get back..

the more i look at it, the more it seems i should have gotten me a 1198 RS... bit bigger, wider and longer tank, more 'into' the bike, adjustable pegs... dear oh dear...

does anyone have a "physics' explenation : Why does a bike turn shorter when you load the front?

When you put more weight on your front, you fork will go in deeper. This will change the geo of your bike, the same as you would put you fork higher in the 3-clamp. However when doing this by changing your weight distribution, you have a bigger chance of chatter (stempelen) in mid corner. Coming out of the corner you will run less quickly wide, but have less grip on the rear.

Get a coach Kope . Go to the track forget fast and work on body position .
You already look like you ride quick with better BP your laps will become easier smoother and safer .
Your melon weighs a fair bit you need to get it down lower
It was the best thing I did . I am far from perfect but a whole lot better than I was .
Remember dedicate some track time to going slow .

Are you going to the DCR Kope?

Kope,

There's a lot involved in hanging off and how it can be used, CSS teaches that you can not only use it to carry less lean angle for a given speed, it can also help to adjust your line for example while hanging off in a turn moving your further in can tighten your line without you needing to move the handle bars.

Must the most important piece to remember is to be totally relaxed with 0 pressure on the bars, if you're hanging off too much for your comfort leveler quirking you to hold on to the bars then you're hanging off 2 much.

Too much weights on the bars will put too much weight on the front wheel and can result in a loss of traction at the front if cornering forces are too high.

Do you find yourself scraping hard parts regularly ?

I recommend the following forum for this run by the California superbike school CSS, there you can discuss all aspects of cornering.

I highly recommend the CSS school



Http://forums.superbikeschool.com

Kope ,

With regard to the helmet and vision the new agv corsa helmet has solved this problem the viewport is higher and perfect for when your are hanging off. I've had the same problem with me Arai helmet and fixed this by adding padding inside the helmet to raise the helmet on my head.

The very most important part about working on BP is you HAVE to ride at 80%.
If you try to work on better BP at your normal pace you WILL always go back to your old BP, because it's your comfort zone and survival instinct kicks in. When you have always been high on the bike and you try to get low, the track looks completely different, turn in markers disappear behind your fairing 50 ft early, and your entire feeling of the bike is different. Do a trackday and promise yourself to ride at 70% or 80% for the day and get your BP right.

On a separate note, I see a lot of people TOO far off the bike. Some is for the camera I'm sure. If you get too far off you get detached from the bike, you lose input to the bike and lose some control. In a left turn, your right cheek should be completely on the seat and your right armpit lined up with fuel tank. I plant my outside forearm against the tank and make sure it is PARALLEL with the ground. As I tip the bike in I hinge that arm at the elbow and it forces my chest to the tank. If your forearm moves from parallel and comes across the tank, it will let your inside shoulder to rotate foreword, crossing you up cutting vision. Practice on the stands. On a Pani, your outside arm can fit under the lip on the tank. Now push back on the bars and move back 4", move left cheek off seat, pivot foot (on ball of foot) on the outer edge of peg and swing knee out. As you would be "banging the bars", following the steering input with pivoting your elbow at your locked in outer forearm. DO NOT get down before the turn, you give up your leverage for turn in.
Remember, none of this will work if you don't push back during braking to get off the tank. If you try to "get off the bike" while against the tank, you just pivot on the tank and end up horrible crossed up.
I'm having a "mini class" at Shenny next Saturday. If it's a reasonable distance come out, even if you don't sign up and I'll show you some stuff. If you want to ride and haven't done a tpm day, email me and I'll get you a special deal for your first time.

Mrbrt baker...

100% on the nail ! it s that changing view that is so upsetting... the couple of times i did hang out and lower, my view was that i was hovering over the curbs and as i already did go down once byt hitting them in spa, it spooked me..

especially as you don't see much of the bike.. i did not see where the frontwheel was..

i m slowly getting there in my mind:

being big means that if i carry my top weight out or forward , it has a big impact. ( as Wilkson says - heavy melon ) . So really "overdoing it" will prove to be counterproductive. due to mass, i don't have to move that 'widely' for it to have the same impact on the bike turning than a rider who's much lighter and shorter.

But: this does not mean that i can stay upright. i do have to bring that bulk lower and find a comfortable position so il can 'hook into the bike' and relax on the bars. therefore, i will have to find a system to block me from sliding forward (shortening the distance between butt and bars wich actually pushes me upwards)..

i just asked Luca from race seats if he can make me a seat like this one and in the mean time i'll put the DP racer seat back on :

i also lowred the bars what allowed me top optimise the position of all the PS3 buttons i have on there..


it also plays fully into the development at Corse to move the weight away from the front