I'm a bit pissed off today... (rear suspension)

TOPDUC said:

If the bike is new (no chain stretch) then swapping the link is a simple nuts/bolts action and will not change anything other than the linkage rate. There are slots for the adjustable length rod to the swingarm. It has two positions only that the cross-bolt will go through it. It is not used for ride height adjustment. The shock threaded lower end is for height adjust...

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Dude, there has been feedback that chain tension and ride height are both affected

Less than ideal IMO

Xbox said:

Dude, there has been feedback that chain tension and ride height are both affected

Less than ideal IMO

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Was that feedback from people that had actually done it correctly, or just by "looking" at the setup. I actually did the swap on a new (Tricolore) bike at delivery (also installed the rear pegs) and both were unaffected.

You must raise the bike up to get the linkage rod end out of the slot, screw it out to the correct length (positively identified right on the rod itself by the next groove for the pinch-bolt) and then back into the linkage slot to the forward hole opened up by flipping the F/P plate. When you're done, the bike comes right back down into the previous position.

I suppose if you mess up the plate swap procedure, then indeed the height may be affected. If that happens, the swing-arm distance and chain slack will be affected slightly as well...

Xbox said:

While it would be nice to have the ride a little more compliant, the balance is so sublime with F setting, that I don't want to mess about with it.

If changing to P is gonna mess with ride-height and chain tension, which in turn means messing with ride-height more, then I'm just gonna leave it as is.

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Xbox - it will not change your ride height. Ride height will remain the same in P or F mode. Depending on you weight, in either F or P you will need to set your sag.

It will change the way you suspension reacts to forces. F being flat or liniar means that the linkage will have a constant reaction force on the spring. Of course, being a spring, in will provide more resistance as it compresses and though will have a little logarithmic curvature, it will be more linear.

Progressive setting will change the function to be less on the spring in the initial travel (feeling more compliant) and more as the suspension compresses, thus will have a true logarithmic increase.

From an older post of mine -

-----Snip-----
Having the option on the Panigale, with the linkage is set to the linear (Flat) position, the linkage acts directly on the spring. This is oversimplifying it a bit, but with a linear rate, if it takes 50Kg to compress the suspension 1 inch, it will take ~ another 50Kg to compress the suspension a further 1 inch and so on till the you reach the limit of available travel. This is fine if you're on a smooth track, but on the roads, bumps can cause the rear compress much further, which soaks up the bump, but then it will also have to rebound further, which can cause one to feel like they are being slapped in the bum with the seat. You might think "well just adjust the rebound and compression to compensate" however, unless you're at a comparatively smooth track, this is very difficult to get right for the road as every road and bump is different. I've seen more than one person trying to tune a linear rate setup for the road which resulted in suspension packing - where the suspension never fully rebounds while going over washboard roads, which can effectively lock out you suspension making it feel board stiff over rough sections. Another problem is that folks with flat rates, being familiar with progressive rates all their riding lives, usually end up setting the preload spring rate harder to reduce the new found suspension travel and rebound effect.


With an standard progressive rate suspension, as the rear compresses, the spring rate rises and thus the spring effectively feels as if it has more resistance as it compresses. Oversimplifying again, if it takes 50Kg to compress the suspension 1 inch, it may take another 65 Kg to compress the suspension 2 inches and another 80Kg to compress the suspension 3 inches and another 110Kg to compress the suspension 4 inches. In these examples with a linear rate setting, it would only take ~200Kg of force to compress the suspension 4 inches where with the progressive rising rate setting, it would take ~ 315Kg of force to compress the suspension the same 4 inches.


Even considering setting proper sag, usually with a progressive linkage setup, you can start with a slightly "softer feeling" initial spring load than you can with a flat rate as you have the rising rate of resistance as the suspension compresses to keep things in check.

However, I think the most important and final thought to consider is: Most of us that ride roads, even if we do a lot of track riding, are more familiar with the reaction of a progressive linkage setup and will therefore inevitably feel more at home with a progressive setting out of the box. I try to spilt my riding into 50/50 track and road, though the fist modification I performed on my Panigale was to change the linkage from Flat to the familiar progressive setting.

----End Snip----

All being said, if you are happy with the feeling of you suspension in the flat mode, your roads are sufficiently smooth and you on ride sans pillion then stay with the flat setting. I've always stated, the best setting is the best setting for YOU - we're all different.

DRSapp said:

......Progressive setting will change the function to be less on the spring in the initial travel (feeling more compliant) and more as the suspension compresses, thus will have a true logarithmic increase.....

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If you review the actual rear suspension rate/travel graph provided by Ducati, you will see that the Flat setting actually decreases the rate from the "0" deflection point by about 2% in the initial 20mm of wheel travel and then comes back up by 40mm and stays relatively flat across the full travel. The Progressive rate starts at the same "0" deflection point and rises in a straight line from there to max travel. On paper it would seem the Flat rate is more compliant, except that the first 20mm of travel is taken up by the static sag with rider weight.

I tend to think the F setting with the proper sag and damping settings is much better than the P setting for a single rider. I'll check it out when my 1199 is delivered...

Also note that the Ducati/Ohlins setups need to "break in" before they work properly. The "problem" is that it takes about 1500-2000 miles of street use or a few track sessions and most people don't ride their Duc SBK that much in a year!

TOPDUC said:

Also note that the Ducati/Ohlins setups need to "break in" before they work properly. The "problem" is that it takes about 1500-2000 miles of street use or a few track sessions and most people don't ride their Duc SBK that much in a year!

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Very true, my dealer told me to bring my S4RS in for suspension set up once I have 2 or 3K on it for the same reason.

I spoke with my sales guy about this today and he has been riding a base press bike for the last few weeks. He has also ridden the S at the dealer intro in NOLA.

When I informed him that I wanted my bike delivered on P he said he wasn't sure what all the F vs. P fuss was about. He said F is where it should be. I know this has been debated with what appears to be P as the final forum ruling as the more comfortable ride.

I still want mine set to P as I intend on riding 2 up at least once when the wifey gets the privilege to ride on the back. I may change to F at some point to see the difference as it does not sound that difficult to swap back and forth.

I told my dealer to set it at p. So when my bike comes in, if it ever comes in the arrow should be pointing at p? Just want to make sure they do the right thing..

TOPDUC said:

If you review the actual rear suspension rate/travel graph provided by Ducati, you will see that the Flat setting actually decreases the rate from the "0" deflection point by about 2% in the initial 20mm of wheel travel and then comes back up by 40mm and stays relatively flat across the full travel. The Progressive rate starts at the same "0" deflection point and rises in a straight line from there to max travel. On paper it would seem the Flat rate is more compliant, except that the first 20mm of travel is taken up by the static sag with rider weight.

I tend to think the F setting with the proper sag and damping settings is much better than the P setting for a single rider. I'll check it out when my 1199 is delivered...

Also note that the Ducati/Ohlins setups need to "break in" before they work properly. The "problem" is that it takes about 1500-2000 miles of street use or a few track sessions and most people don't ride their Duc SBK that much in a year!

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Thanks for all your input. I'm gonna stay in F for a few 1000km, then see how I feel.

Where did you find spring rate charts BTW ?

DRSapp said:

Xbox - it will not change your ride height. Ride height will remain the same in P or F mode. Depending on you weight, in either F or P you will need to set your sag.

It will change the way you suspension reacts to forces. F being flat or liniar means that the linkage will have a constant reaction force on the spring. Of course, being a spring, in will provide more resistance as it compresses and though will have a little logarithmic curvature, it will be more linear.

Progressive setting will change the function to be less on the spring in the initial travel (feeling more compliant) and more as the suspension compresses, thus will have a true logarithmic increase.

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Thank you, really appreciate the explanations.

Guess I'm slightly tainted by my experimentations with the 916 and variable steering head angle. Oh, that was joy

jredling said:

I told my dealer to set it at p. So when my bike comes in, if it ever comes in the arrow should be pointing at p? Just want to make sure they do the right thing..

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Yes I asked this in a different thread, the point of the triangle needs to be pointing to the P!

It has also been said that the PDI on delivery in UK, dealers should be changing the setting to P anyway.

I had this with my dealer last week when I collect my bike they insist it's meant to be in F unless your taking pillions in which case P, that said they are happy to change it to P FOC if I want trying it in F for now.

TOPDUC said:

...I tend to think the F setting with the proper sag and damping settings is much better than the P setting for a single rider. I'll check it out when my 1199 is delivered...

Click to expand...

I haven't seen a graph from Ducati on their variable rate suspension, but it sound like that are plotting the rate of change and not force over movement.

I agree that Flat will allow more travel through the range for a given rider weight and that properly setting the sag in F or P is still required. However, as for the debate on which setting is better, this will always be rider dependent.

For myself, I've never ridden a flat rate linkage setup on the road so wanted to start with a known baseline, considering these gravel piles that pass for roads in North Yorkshire and that this is a completely different feeling bike than my 1198s. After 1500 or so Miles, I'll experiment more with the linkage rate setting and decide which I prefer. For now, its P for me.

DRSapp said:

I haven't seen a graph from Ducati on their variable rate suspension, but it sound like that are plotting the rate of change and not force over movement.......

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Yes, you are correct. The plot is simply rate change over movement in describing the linkage operation. The actual spring rate/change is not listed

TOPDUC said:

If the bike is new (no chain stretch) then swapping the link is a simple nuts/bolts action and will not change anything other than the linkage rate. There are slots for the adjustable length rod to the swingarm. It has two positions only that the cross-bolt will go through it. It is not used for ride height adjustment. The shock threaded lower end is for height adjust...

Click to expand...

Mine was delivered F as well. I imagine I need a paddock stand to switch it? Is it just removing the one bolt, or will I have to loosen the other one on the arm?

Geeze, so much conjecture here and not enough fact. I'm not one to comment though, but I'll say that I personally prefer progressive after trying about 600 miles on each.

Try each setup for yourself, and then make your own conclusions. Each riders style and riding conditions will be different, so settings that may be appropriate for one rider may not be for someone else.

You dont need a paddock stand. There have been a few good write ups on how to do this yourself. One thread is linked below.

http://ducati1199.com/mechanical-technical/1230-how-change-f-p-rear-shock.html

I also commented on this thread and at the bottom you'll see how I did it with no stands required. Just a screw jack is necessary, something that is found in most automobiles tire change kit.

Good luck

Another wasted thread.

Well, here are my 2 cents. I am pretty decent rider and I took 2 Panigales (standard on F and a S on P) to Palomar Mountain (lost of turns and decreasing radious). You only use the first 3 gear. I started with the S (on P), and I felt in love, that's when I decided to get one. It was great (I even pass a RSV4, the other bike that I was consifering to buy. I know, it is based on the rider, but it make me feel better and he was dragging his knees all over, when I didn't have to passing him on the outside of the turn).

Then we switch, and I rode the standard on "F". it was like a wild horse, I was inmediately faster (about 15 to 20%), the bike felt completely planted. Next day I left my deposit for the standard, and make sure the suspension was on "F"

The "P" is there for a reason……. P@&&Y !!!!

Put in Flat and leave it alone.

George Villar said:

The "P" is there for a reason"¦"¦. P@&&Y !!!!

Put in Flat and leave it alone.

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George is on the money, yet again! Closing in on 3000 miles and it's been on F since delivery. Would not change a thing..,the feedback is instantaneous and I personally do not want my SuperBike suspension wallowing in more travel when I'm hitting it full tilt, regardless of road conditions. When I want a smooth compliant ride, I take the Multistrada and have a ball with the Mrs or my son on the back.

Leave it in F and gain more insight to how and why the bike was designed as it is.

I have been riding in F since new and today it will get changed to P as I want to take my wife for a few rides.
I also look forward to doing a comparision between the 2 and see how the bike reacts over the .... roads we have here.

But I am sure I will do exactly what George and RSR have, and I will put it back to F as this is how I like my Ducati's to handle.