Jonathan Rea stands against Ducati: A Price War in Racing

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Jonathan Rea goes public with his war against Ducati: 'We cannot let motorcycles that cost 44,000 euros race against motorcycles that cost 20,000'

Jonathan Rea, now an official Yamaha rider, has quickly adapted to his new team, as evidenced by his initial tests with the Yamaha R1. He humorously noted that the blue color of Yamaha matches well with his eyes. However, his focus has shifted towards Ducati, the dominant force in the World...
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Thought I'll drop this here.
Please feel free to comment. I would like to hear the forum's opinion.
 
Toprak seemed to be doing ok with it.

‘We cannot let motorcycles that cost 44,000 euros race against motorcycles that cost 20,000’" because the bike he is racing on is $20k?

I'm sure the Ducati V4RS isn't $44k either. I get the homulgation price thing he's driving at, but it doesn't make sense. I'm quite sure Yamaha sells many more R1s that Ducati sells V4s. Of course they cost less. A R1M isn't $20k either, IIRC it's closer to $30k. I'd also go as far to say as I'd bet the WSBK racing budget of Yamaha and Ducati isn't all that different.

The big question is were the Ducati guys crying this much when Yamaha and Honda were dominating?
 
bp_SFV4 said:
Toprak seemed to be doing ok with it.

‘We cannot let motorcycles that cost 44,000 euros race against motorcycles that cost 20,000’" because the bike he is racing on is $20k?

I'm sure the Ducati V4RS isn't $44k either. I get the homulgation price thing he's driving at, but it doesn't make sense. I'm quite sure Yamaha sells many more R1s that Ducati sells V4s. Of course they cost less. A R1M isn't $20k either, IIRC it's closer to $30k. I'd also go as far to say as I'd bet the WSBK racing budget of Yamaha and Ducati isn't all that different.

The big question is were the Ducati guys crying this much when Yamaha and Honda were dominating?
Click to expand...

Yes. But they weren’t public about it. WSBK’s rules have always been highly influenced by Ducati. 1000 cc capacity engine size limit is a direct result of Ducati’s lobbying back in the v-twin era. I’d argue 10 Yamaha/Kwak’s championships to Ducati’s 16 is hardly considered dominance 😉

IMG_0807.jpeg

Rea is wrong but also right. There’s no difference between the engine of the R1 and R1M. The V4R engine is completely different from the 1103 engine. So the price of the homologation spec bikes are different. Yamaha could produce a different engine spec for homologation but the R&D probably wouldn’t be worth it.

As for team spending, Ducati prob has a magnitude more budget. They’ve got VAG money and clearly they’re using it effectively. Since 2012, Ducati have been on a tear (it took them probably 5 years to separate the wheat from the chaff and pick up Gigi)
 
Agreed. I was a fan of Jonathan Rae, he's a hard racer.
Although when his back is against the wall he does tend to make these suggestive comments. Rae did it to Chaz Davies on the 1199R, when the bike had good top end speed. Then Ducati got 500rpm cut and Rae went on win another championship.
 
SuperDomestique said:
As for team spending, Ducati prob has a magnitude more budget.
Click to expand...

1990 to 2020 is thirty years. 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020 (albeit by Kawasaki) is a pretty strong run.

If Ducati as a corporation allocated more money to win races, that's a strategic decision they made. If Yamaha/Honda/Kawaski/et. al, makes the opposite decision, then they did so at the detriment of their racing program. Without even the benefit of a Google search, I doubt Ducati has a higher total operational budget than Yamaha.
 
SuperDomestique said:
Volkswagen Auto Group 😘
Click to expand...

So Rea has a bit of sand in his vag?

Yamaha could build a homologation special and people would buy it but the R1 is an excellent bike/powerplant and looking at the last race its swings and roundabouts. They could possibly add another 500 rpm but at what cost in rideability? Ducati is ground up V with a V4 being a logical progression, for Yamaha to switch to a V4, that would take a lot of R&D for not much advantage on the street. The crossplane is the coolest sounding and tractable superbike engine out there, our V4's are awesome but the Yamaha is special bike with its own merits.
 
bp_SFV4 said:
1990 to 2020 is thirty years. 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020 (albeit by Kawasaki) is a pretty strong run.

If Ducati as a corporation allocated more money to win races, that's a strategic decision they made. If Yamaha/Honda/Kawaski/et. al, makes the opposite decision, then they did so at the detriment of their racing program. Without even the benefit of a Google search, I doubt Ducati has a higher total operational budget than Yamaha.
Click to expand...

I’d guess Ducati is spending between $2-10M on their WSBK effort considering it costs about $1M to run a BSB team (How much does it cost to run a British Superbike team? – 44Teeth) and about $4-10M for a GP team (How much does it really cost to run a MotoGP team? - The Race)

Yamaha’s factory WSBK is run by Crescent Yamaha and from what I can gather from they’re financial statement I’d guess that the team runs on a less than $2M budget (they have $2M in tangible/intangible assets). I’d be willing to bet that Yamaha foots the rider salary not Crescent.
 
bp_SFV4 said:
I'd give it to Germans for sorting out some of the Italian manufacturing woes.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Italian manufacturing is garbage from what I’ve seen and experienced.

I’d also argue the only way Ducati is able to do the V21L project is bc of VAG monies. I’d also bet that this project is a direct order from VAG top brass. There’s probably a financial loophole that this project will fill once it bears fruit
 
I have some Chinese "genuine Ducati" fairings that would agree.

The Italians do well with the aesthetics of design, but fall short in engineering and manufacturing. Kind of the opposite of the Germans. Granted, the Germans designed the absolute most complicated cup holder in the existence of the automobile. The two together are better as a whole.
 
bp_SFV4 said:
I have some Chinese "genuine Ducati" fairings that would agree.

The Italians do well with the aesthetics of design, but fall short in engineering and manufacturing. Kind of the opposite of the Germans. Granted, the Germans designed the absolute most complicated cup holder in the existence of the automobile. The two together are better as a whole.
Click to expand...

Yup. The experience of working on a Ducati is so frustrating and unsatisfying. It’s aesthetics first and engineering second, serviceability 99th. Just installing a simple front sprocket you have to disassemble 7 other things 🤦‍♂️
 
I'm not an economist, but what would Y2K dollars for a 996R or 998R be compared to the retail price of the V4R?

MSRP Y2K Honda RC51 = $9,999
MSRP Y2K Kawasaki ZX7R = $9,299
MSRP 2001 Ducati 996R = EUR 26,000

Dunno if things have really changed all that much...
 
its a competition....whats fairness got to do with anything? There are rules that are the same for everyone. How you choose to interpret the rules is down to you.
Show me any racer that isn't woe is me when things aint going there way?
 
The frame and motor are the only thing in a WSB bike that’s on a road bike. Even then the frame is modified and gusseted. The engine is tweaked as well with all kinds of tricks and the ECU is all spec in WSB for all teams. So Rea should go to the Yamaha bosses and tell them to make a street version of the R1 with a V4, so he can race it.,
 

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