Jonathan Rea stands against Ducati: A Price War in Racing

Steven31371 · Nov 19, 2023

In my experience, when you see someone start complaining about external factors limiting their performance it’s because they are losing confidence that they are as good as their top competitors internally. That doesn’t bode well for Rea or Yamaha with his mindset like that.

So next season it’s probably gunna be a hell of a Toprak and Bautista show, which might make for more entertaining racing…two guys fighting it out at the front is in some ways more entertaining than 3 guys fighting in out and trading the lead, with three guys fighting the overall pace slows.

spooky · Nov 19, 2023

Steven31371 said:
In my experience, when you see someone start complaining about external factors limiting their performance it’s because they are losing confidence that they are as good as their top competitors internally. That doesn’t bode well for Rea or Yamaha with his mindset like that.

It can also be useful to to blame something other than yourself in order to maintain self-belief.

That can backfire though, like when Rossi left the dominant Honda to go to Yamaha and Biaggi moved to Honda, saying that the only reason he couldn’t beat Rossi was because he was on the Honda… and then Rossi beat him anyway.

Steven31371 · Nov 19, 2023

spooky said:
It can also be useful to to blame something other than yourself in order to maintain self-belief.

That what I mean, you see guys start talking like that to buoy themselves up when self doubt starts to creep in.

The winners real contenders have no doubts to contend with.

burton · Nov 19, 2023

Steven31371 said:
So next season it’s probably gunna be a hell of a Toprak and Bautista show

I wouldn’t expect too much from Toprak, I don’t think that BMW can do it.

baggerman · Nov 19, 2023

SuperDomestique said:
Yup. The experience of working on a Ducati is so frustrating and unsatisfying. It’s aesthetics first and engineering second, serviceability 99th. Just installing a simple front sprocket you have to disassemble 7 other things

I totally disagree since I just disassembled most of the bike. Radiator assembly comes down as one piece, 4 bolts and a couple of connectors and the rear subframe comes off (after taking of the fairing/side panels, tank and seat) complete with exhaust heatshield etc. All the electronics is centralized around the front of the airbox. Front frame come off easily. Pretty straightforward and intuitively obvious.

panibadboy · Nov 19, 2023

burton said:
I wouldn’t expect too much from Toprak, I don’t think that BMW can do it.

Yea, sad reality unfortunately

BP PanigaleV4S · Nov 19, 2023

The serviceability problem I have with the V4 is the raping one gets at the parts counter.

Toprak and Rae made the moves they did I'm sure because they were paid handsomely to do so. Rae should stop with the nonsense, cash his paycheck and get on with riding.

baggerman · Nov 19, 2023

bp_SFV4 said:
The serviceability problem I have with the V4 is the raping one gets at the parts counter.

Toprak and Rae made the moves they did I'm sure because they were paid handsomely to do so. Rae should stop with the nonsense, cash his paycheck and get on with riding.

The true raping came with VAG. They raised the price of all service related stuff; parts, tools etc. Brutal.

cl955 · Nov 19, 2023

Steven31371 said:
I have a buddy that ordered one of those WSBK spec R1’s, thought better of it, canceled the order, and ordered an Aprilia XTrenta instead,

It won't be current factory team WSBK spec, more like either last years or a bike they might sell to a privateer.

Probably a very low level of tune too.

Even with Toprak on it, I'd wager min 0.5 second per lap slower than a factory bike.

Nice for trackdays though, which I think is the target market.

CSV4 · Nov 19, 2023

SuperDomestique said:
Yamaha’s factory WSBK is run by Crescent Yamaha and from what I can gather from they’re financial statement I’d guess that the team runs on a less than $2M budget (they have $2M in tangible/intangible assets). I’d be willing to bet that Yamaha foots the rider salary not Crescent.

lol, hopefully your day job is not finance/acctg

CSV4 · Nov 19, 2023

bp_SFV4 said:
Granted, the Germans designed the absolute most complicated cup holder in the existence of the automobile. The two together are better as a whole.

are you talking about the 911 cup holder?

spooky · Nov 19, 2023

CSV4 said:
are you talking about the 911 cup holder?

He is - awesome design.

They then got rid of it and put a cup holder immediately behind the gear stick… genius.

CSV4 · Nov 19, 2023

maybe american sized drinks were causing the old design to fail.

DCPanni · Nov 19, 2023

The rule of a 911 cupholder is that you never use it, least in the 997 models. You press the trim, it comes out and unfolds nicely…but if you use it, it breaks.

SuperDomestique · Nov 19, 2023

CSV4 said:
lol, hopefully your day job is not finance/acctg

I see you have all team budget numbers then?

spooky · Nov 19, 2023

DCPanni said:
The rule of a 911 cupholder is that you never use it, least in the 997 models. You press the trim, it comes out and unfolds nicely…but if you use it, it breaks.

I had a 992 with those cup holders and it seemed fine and was used. No idea about the 997 and there’s nowhere for a cup in my 964.

CSV4 · Nov 19, 2023

the 964 is how it's supposed to be (theoretically speaking, I've never had one).

Snuggly · Nov 19, 2023

spooky said:
I had a 992 with those cup holders and it seemed fine and was used. No idea about the 997 and there’s nowhere for a cup in my 964.

My 991 cup holder worked fine even with heavy bottles. The F12 though…typical Italian job

spooky · Nov 20, 2023

Snuggly said:
My 991 cup holder worked fine even with heavy bottles. The F12 though…typical Italian job

Oops, typo… I meant 991

In a F12 I think you would need a drink… something strong to calm your nerves.

Steven31371 · Nov 20, 2023

burton said:
I wouldn’t expect too much from Toprak, I don’t think that BMW can do it.

I dunno man, that video that somebody posted here with the BMW going 2 seconds a lap faster than the V4 with a decent rider is living rent free in my head. Granted that’s an extremely small data set to go by, but still…

Jonathan Rea stands against Ducati: A Price War in Racing

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