BrenTuning Flash Development (Tech Talk)

TainoWarrior said:

No there not ! I have there tune on my RSV4

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Which do you have - SLR? How do you like it?

ArcticWhite said:

Definitely entertaining. I do agree a lot of tuning has become about marketing and hype, rather than the science. It wrecks some of the credibility. It completely turned me off of using some of these tuners, because so many flash users don't do before and after dynos that show independent definite positive results.

Funny that I don't see it as much in automotive tuning. Probably because of programs like HPtuners where most of the time the end users can see what was actually changed in the tune. No smoke and mirrors.





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Back in the day I raced various supercharged mustangs , we always posted up Dyno results before and After which would instantly call out tuners .... all Over the country , no body does this with bike flashes .
Post up a Dyno sheet with a video.

With my 20K mustang motor I would never dare order a internet tune and load in my CPU and drive it like a bandit down the quarter mile. Kaboom before I'd hit 60 foot.

If you go into woolich Map share site you will find a Bren tune extracted from a 1299 and you will clearly see no ignition timing. Dangerous , they sell this for $775 on their site ? Come on man.

Every motor has a slight tuning variance, factors like , elevation atmosphere temperatures, octanes. all play factors with tuning.

You want the best for your bike , put it on a Dyno with a good tuner and customize tune specifically for your application, no cookie cutter Internet tune can beat that.

offering my opinion just like everyone else at the end of the day it's your bike your money your choice.

Peace!


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alvarop said:

Back in the day I raced various supercharged mustangs , we always posted up Dyno results before and After which would instantly call out tuners .... all Over the country , no body does this with bike flashes...

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I’m in a car community as well (Toyota Supra), and as you said - dyno tunes are common place. In the bike community, I don’t see many dyno/tune videos/results for Ducati, but I do commonly see dyno flash tune videos for the Japanese bikes.

I currently have OFT & SLR for my aprilia . Bren tune for my Ducati . I like the SLR if you ask Franklin questions he will make time to answer them . He easy to work with I see better results on my aprilia compare to the OFT tablet. Bren tune on my V4S is ok I’m running into hiccups so I’m going to go with SLR is my next step for a tune. Also I bought the bike with a Bren tune since I’m not the original purchaser for the tablet Brentune isn’t willing to help endless I purchase a new device with a tune. I’ll be happy to pay for a tune just don’t see the logic to buy a device when I have one for the bike from Brentune .So I’m going with SLR for that reason and also results and the good customer service. Also Franklin doesn’t get upset when you ask questions.


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Sorry to your answer Craigbush I like it


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I don't do much with cars anymore and a lot has changed since I did. I could remove the rom chip from the factory ECU, install a zif socket, buy some eeproms, and flash a bin with a willem chip burner. We called canned tunes "base maps" and they were only intended to safely get you and your vehicle to a dyno for a tune, or to give yourself a starting point if you were street tuning. From what I understand (and I could be wrong), BrenTuning products are essentially "base maps" that are encrypted and unable to be edited? It amazes me how many people were willing to shell out so much for it.

MCU Innovations aka PuffTheMagic on the CBR forums was reverse engineering the SC82/CBR1000RR-R ECU and developing the software to flash/tune it. He sold a very limited number of licenses to his "master tool" to tuning shops to assist with development. They got the ability to tune unlimited amount of bikes, and he got a ton of feedback to assist with development. BrenTuning got one of the licenses from a tuner in Europe that was willing to give up one of their three. Of course, this wasn't how the licenses were intended to be used, but MCU didn't make a big deal out of it. BrenTuning wanted additional licenses to allow them to send a laptop around via postal system so people could flash their bikes, but MCU only sold them for a limited time for development purposes and did not want to provide more so he had a chance to recoup something for his time/effort.

The infamous Troy Gleason shows up to the community posing as an unbiased 3rd party that happened upon some Youtube videos showing BrenTuning developed the "first" 200whp SC82 with their tune. It was far from the "first." As seen on other communities, he was quickly identified as Troy Gleason. Suspicious he was shilling, I Googled his username and one of the first results is a Youtube channel for none other than Troy Gleason. As seen on other communities, he denied it and accused me of being someone I'm not. He left after I looked through his short post history and noticed a month before the video was posted he claimed to own SC82 vin #170 -- which happened to be the same one in the BrenTuning video that appears to be owned by 650ib.

I don't know the owner of BrenTuning and have never purchased any of their products. For all I know, he's a competent tuner. Based on the threads here and in other communities, I would never trust his products without some strong evidence from others (aka not Troy). Even then, the tactics used by his lackey to "market" the product to communities by attempting to mask affiliation would prevent me from ever contributing to the company -- even if it was the only option.

Anyway, just thought you all might find humor in seeing Troy is still up to the same. I'm really digging the Streetfighter, so might see you all again in the future.

I did before and after dyno runs on my V4R, all on the same day.

Stock map, Up-Map and SLR.

The SLR map was the best, approx six bhp at top. I sent my dyno with AFR dyno graph to Frank, and he customised the map for my bike.

So, not a full dyno map, but better than a straight canned map. He was also very helpful and adjusted rev limits and gave me a quick throttle map too.

As someone who is currently testing my streetfighter with them, I will say this the tune is ....... good. They need to fix my error lights for my ABS, generic error light, and the engine breaking needs work the on off throttle tuning isn’t right and jerks the bike
It is a beta tune so hey whatever, work on it and update the tune. Besides those issues the fueling, quick shifter, and he took care of all the throttle restrictions. The bike feels way better than up map not even a close. My biggest complaint at the moment is the customer service they are very slow. Some of the guys on here may not know this but I worked in the automotive world with tuners for years. And from my experience the best tuners are always the ones that are the fastest and get the revisions right. So I will continue to update this on how well they adjust my bike until they release the final tune. But at the moment it’s extremely good he’s got a fix his little issues. Bren reminds me of Lund good tuner but don’t get too excited lol

TainoWarrior said:

Sorry to your answer Craigbush I like it

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Thanks. I’m considering that option.

CBR SP said:

I... Anyway, just thought you all might find humor in seeing Troy is still up to the same. I'm really digging the Streetfighter, so might see you all again in the future.

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I love insight like this.

CBR SP said:

I don't do much with cars anymore and a lot has changed since I did. I could remove the rom chip from the factory ECU, install a zif socket, buy some eeproms, and flash a bin with a willem chip burner. We called canned tunes "base maps" and they were only intended to safely get you and your vehicle to a dyno for a tune, or to give yourself a starting point if you were street tuning. From what I understand (and I could be wrong), BrenTuning products are essentially "base maps" that are encrypted and unable to be edited? It amazes me how many people were willing to shell out so much for it.

MCU Innovations aka PuffTheMagic on the CBR forums was reverse engineering the SC82/CBR1000RR-R ECU and developing the software to flash/tune it. He sold a very limited number of licenses to his "master tool" to tuning shops to assist with development. They got the ability to tune unlimited amount of bikes, and he got a ton of feedback to assist with development. BrenTuning got one of the licenses from a tuner in Europe that was willing to give up one of their three. Of course, this wasn't how the licenses were intended to be used, but MCU didn't make a big deal out of it. BrenTuning wanted additional licenses to allow them to send a laptop around via postal system so people could flash their bikes, but MCU only sold them for a limited time for development purposes and did not want to provide more so he had a chance to recoup something for his time/effort.

The infamous Troy Gleason shows up to the community posing as an unbiased 3rd party that happened upon some Youtube videos showing BrenTuning developed the "first" 200whp SC82 with their tune. It was far from the "first." As seen on other communities, he was quickly identified as Troy Gleason. Suspicious he was shilling, I Googled his username and one of the first results is a Youtube channel for none other than Troy Gleason. As seen on other communities, he denied it and accused me of being someone I'm not. He left after I looked through his short post history and noticed a month before the video was posted he claimed to own SC82 vin #170 -- which happened to be the same one in the BrenTuning video that appears to be owned by 650ib.

I don't know the owner of BrenTuning and have never purchased any of their products. For all I know, he's a competent tuner. Based on the threads here and in other communities, I would never trust his products without some strong evidence from others (aka not Troy). Even then, the tactics used by his lackey to "market" the product to communities by attempting to mask affiliation would prevent me from ever contributing to the company -- even if it was the only option.

Anyway, just thought you all might find humor in seeing Troy is still up to the same. I'm really digging the Streetfighter, so might see you all again in the future.

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I am with you on this issue. Troy Gleason and Brendan Griffin have attempted to dominate the tuning world by shilling fake and false information about many platforms of products. One such platform beyond the Duc and Honda is the BMW S series. This is where Brendan Griffin got his start with fake tuning and always hiring someone to do his work and he would claim how great he was on forums. He was doing nothing but button pushing and keyboard warrior his way into peoples pockets.

Brendan Griffin hired Troy Gleason to defame the competition with fake lies and postings of praise how BrenTune Moto was this all great development tuning shop. I got to be good friends with Floyd Rasc on facebook when I saw all of Troy Gleason's lies about some Xworks. I could not understand how Xworks only came out of Troy's postings and never from anyone else having any bad experience with Floyd and his BMW programming and service. Then I started doing alot of google searches and DM to Floyd. The main website that came up was Brentunes Sucks with Troy Gleason sale manager skills this of course lead to https://xworksbmw.com/

I asked Floyd why not get a lawyer to sue this individual for the slander and lies about him. His response was as humble as pie. Just too old to worry about it and tired of the internet anyway. Super good guy to have long conversations with about BMW S1000RR and the Pontiac Fiero history. Anyone should really pickup the phone and call this guy. Its a treat to have learn of all the stories from this direct page about Brendan Griffin and this family. https://www.brentuningsucks.com/messages/page2messages.htm

I would encourage anyone on this forum to read the exposure of the con man Troy Gleason on the Honda forum. They figured it out real fast too .. tuned ‘21 RR-R SP, Troy Gleason-busted

Then here is another classic example of Troy Gleason posting on the BMW S1000RR forum that Brentuning was the first to provide Full Time Close Loop mode tuned ECU. This thread was edited and many comments deleted by the mods there. However, a simple cache google research on it reveals the mostly unedited version here

The 2020+ BMW S1000RR’s Best New Feature And Why You...

The fact of this lie is that the 2020 BMW S1000RR K67 started with near full time closed loop mode from the factory. This ECU is structured with target AFR tables under the conditions of after startup ( pre-cat warmup ), cruise , WOT

Troy Gleason was hired by Brendan and Brian Griffin to get pass the Federal Government Paycheck Protection Program and I guess TROLL falls as employee description too.

https://projects.propublica.org/coronavirus/bailouts/loans/bren-tuning-llc-5226367700
Troy Gleason works remote in Temecula California.

I think my credibility meter is broken

I'm going to weigh in on this because I have both products (Bren and SLR)

I give comment with a few statements to make up front:

1) I have no horse in this race. Check my profile. I don't post frequently but I've been here since I bought my bike last summer. Not a shill for anyone.
2) Both tuners were given the same information going in with regard to my bike's config and neither have had the benefit of any empirical data on which to base their tunes
3) Bike has NOT been dyno'd and all impressions are entirely subjective
4) Both shops have been very responsive and have given me excellent customer service

- Bike in question is a:
- 2020 Panigale V4 Poverty Edition
- Race Version of the Sprint Filter
- 93 Pump Gas
- Modified Stock Exhaust by Phil
Phil himself has estimated the flow characteristics being similar to the Akra or Arrow slip ons
- All of my riding is done at or near sea level (I'm not in SLC or Denver or somewhere).

These are the exact specs given to both tuners at the time I purchased their products.

Last year I purchased the Bren tune as it was one of the very few 2020 compatible tuners (maybe the only one at the time besides T800?). I loaded it up and took it for a ride. It had a decent flat spot 4-6 or 5-7k ish but otherwise ran well. Bren immediately sent me a new tune that eliminated the flat spot and seemed to run well overall so I stopped there. Over time however I noticed a few things that led me to believe she might be running rich. First was some low RPM surging and sputtering...particularly in 3rd gear. Nothing severe, but it was there. Second was the tendency to stall occasionally letting out the clutch without adding more throttle than I would normally when pulling away from a stop. In other words, you could not roll the bike forward by simply easing out the clutch without it stalling more often than not. Third, it just smelled very rich and I got off the bike smelling of burned fuel whenever I went for a ride. Some of this is just the fact that the stock exhaust outlets dump the exhaust directly on the rider at stoplights, but it seemed excessive. Garage smelled of rich exhaust for hours/overnight if I pulled in with the engine running at all.

Disclaimer...I did not take any of the above concerns back to BrenTuning to be corrected with a third map...none of these issues seemed so bad.

However, with all the debate in the community I wanted to explore the SLR tune for as much the experiment as wanting to see if it was any better for my bike.

Today was day 1 with the first SLR tune and it's a huge improvement. All of the above issues have been corrected and seat of the pants she feels much stronger than before across the whole range. It honestly feels like a whole different bike. Not that it was bad before, but feels like it's woken up significantly everywhere.

Couple of other things noticed...
1) the econo mode cylinder cutout feature is disabled (didn't buy this thing for its fuel economy anyway)
2) The exhaust note changed slightly...not volume but pitch...slight, but enough that I noticed it right away. Seems a little "raspier"
3) There's significantly more low RPM engine braking now. I've got EBC set to 3 but I'm talking about low RPM (under 5k) engine braking coming to a light or whatnot. I used to be able to take hands off the bars and coast in at a comfortable speed with minimal engine brake but now she slows right down quick when I let off the throttle...regardless of gear really. Perhaps a rich condition was feeding enough fuel under zero throttle to equate to a slight amount of throttle applied? Maybe I'm reaching. Just something I'll need to get used to I guess.
4) Feeding throttle at Low RPM is much more consistent and linear. The bike is way easier to ride slowly in general.

I think the only thing all this proves is that SLR has a great starting point canned map for my bike's conditions and that maybe Bren supplied a safe, "fat" map, not having access to the AFRs for my bike in particular. Not to say that if both were given dyno runs with AFRs that they wouldn't be both able to resubmit more accurate maps...just apples to apples both given the same disadvantages, the SLR tune was much better on my bike.

I'm planning on booking dyno time locally to be able to validate these seat of the pants impressions but I'm not sure how soon I'll be able to get that done.

Both shops treated me very well...both shops had excellent customer service and were very responsive to me.

If i install the full akra exhaust myself rather than taking it to a ducati dealership will that void the warranty? I was told adding an aftermarket slip on would void my factory warranty?

Technically, no. However, the dealer can use whatever excuse to refuse a warranty claim. That said, if you had an issue with the bike unrelated to the motor and its performance, then they can't void your warranty. If you were to throw a rod that may have been caused by whatever reason, they can easily blame it on the exhaust. Basically they have to prove that whatever problem you're experiencing was caused by the aftermarket exhaust. Otherwise, they can't just void your warranty simply because they see an exhaust installed.

I would love to know how a dealership would justify a thrown road from an exhaust install...

In the US a dealership would have to prove something you did caused the problem to void a warranty. Other countries might not have that protection.

I’ll tell ya what’s crazy...

Ducati lets us buy a street legal bike here in the USA and let’s us treat it like a 2 stroke ON A RACE TRACK and they still stand behind it. Try that with any of the big 3 auto manufacturers here. All the race motors I build come with lifetime warranty. You can bolt any exhaust to it ya want, no problem. The warranty can only be voided by starting the engine : )

Don I don't think anyone is gonna be hitting you up to build any race motors for them it will be a condition of failure before the build is even started.

Don14R said:

I’ll tell ya what’s crazy...

Ducati lets us buy a street legal bike here in the USA and let’s us treat it like a 2 stroke ON A RACE TRACK and they still stand behind it. Try that with any of the big 3 auto manufacturers here. All the race motors I build come with lifetime warranty. You can bolt any exhaust to it ya want, no problem. The warranty can only be voided by starting the engine : )

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bp_SFV4 said:

I would love to know how a dealership would justify a thrown road from an exhaust install...

In the US a dealership would have to prove something you did caused the problem to void a warranty. Other countries might not have that protection.

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Well from a full exhaust install that doesn't use the O2 sensors... you're running the bike out of parameters and the ECU can't fix it. Denied warranty
If you put a non-Ducati "flash/tune" in the ECU to go along with that exhaust... you have changed their operating parameters. Denied warranty

Keep the header and O2 sensors but only change the slipons... wasted money, but the O2s can fix the AFR to run inside the Ducati parameters. Warranty should be honored