Nicky Hayden Fired....

Soz said:

Hayden won his championship by default in 2006, by 7 points and because Rossi had 3 dnfs due to mechanical and tyre issues. Hayden only won 2 races Rossi won 5 and was clearly the better rider all year. To back up my suggestion, Hayden has won only 3 races in 11 seasons of motogp racing, and none since his championship by default!

He has always been over rated - IN MY OPINION.

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I don't think as poorly of Hayden as you do, but I agree with several points. I remember the year he won the championship as pretty unspectacular. Yes, he was taken out by Pedrosa in one race, but as you pointed out clearly, Rossi had a bunch more DNFs, and Rossi's crash at that last race was pretty silly - handing the championship to Hayden. Almost suspicious...

I watched Hayden come up through the AMA series and he clearly was head and shoulders above the field. Not that that is saying much in the perspective of World's Best Riders, but he was the best we had to send over in a long time.

He did very well in the dawn of MotoGP, with 1,000 cc four strokes and no TC, his dirt background suited this well. IMHO, he simply wasn't able to adapt to the TC era and the traditional 250 2-stroke style of high corner speed vs. the SBK-style of get-it-stopped-square-it-off-light-it-up-exit.

This is why Rossi for me will always be the GOAT (greatest of all time). He won 125cc, 250cc, 500cc 2-strokes, then the first MotoGP 4-stroke championship, and continued winning, even through the TC era. Ago has more wins but he never had so much changing technology and riding styles to adapt to.

All that said I think Hayden's heart belongs in MotoGP and the only real option for him is Suzuki. From what I've observed, he won't pull an Edwards and go to CRTs or a Satellite team as it's not worth it to him at this stage in his career. Supposedly he is very well invested and could comfortably retire, but as he said in his Laguna press conference, he's not ready to hang up the leathers just yet.

Dont get me wrong, I have never disliked the guy. He has always been an affable and likeable chap amongst the paddock. Its just maybe that his ambition has outweighed his talent when it comes to winning at the top level. He's certainly faster than many but not necessarily fast enough to win. I think he shouldn't have had as long in the field as he has done, and that is the teams and organisers fault for not giving younger riders more opportunities, not his. But good on him for having stayed there and made a living for so long out of it. I couln't ever have done that.

But look what happened when Ducati gave Stoner a shot at the top, and what Marquez has done now. The Spanish model of racing and rider development is showing the rest of the world up at the moment. The aussie scene and the US racing series used to be the breeding grounds for championship winning riders, but it has all dried up. ASBk and the AMA potentially have a lot to answer for for letting that happen. Here it has been ........ beuraucratic in fighting that has stuffed up our domestic series, and I believe that shows in the number of our riders in gp at the moment.

There would be no shame for Hayden if he did go back to WSBK. It would be good for WSBK too.

DUCENZO said:

I doubt Cal will now consider a Ducati ride, he's doing much better where he's at...why would he?

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Because I think he wants/deserves a factory ride. Everyone else is still under contract next year, where else would he go? Maybe they'll fire Pedrosa or Rossi.

I think it would be a bad decision if he did since Ducati can't compete, perhaps under these rules. It's not just Hayden or Dovizioso, the bike lacks.

I agree - bad decision.

Soz said:

I think he shouldn't have had as long in the field as he has done, and that is the teams and organisers fault for not giving younger riders more opportunities, not his.

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I think you underestimate the largest market in the world for 600cc + sportbikes. Humans are a nationalistic lot, and having a countryman to root for sells bikes - and TV advertising - which is professional broadcast sports are all about at the end of the day.

Soz said:

But look what happened when Ducati gave Stoner a shot at the top, and what Marquez has done now. The Spanish model of racing and rider development is showing the rest of the world up at the moment. The aussie scene and the US racing series used to be the breeding grounds for championship winning riders, but it has all dried up.

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Stoner and Marquez are one in a million talents, simple as that. Not since Rossi have there been kids that rise to the cream like they did. In fact, Stoner really didn't do so hot in the lower ranks and 250cc, but those in the know saw the raw talent he had and created an environment for him to flourish. That's what talent scouts do for a living. Marquez is another Rossi in the making, and it has been since Ago that such a dominating rider existed.

The US pro racing system was decimated by the 2008 recession, and has not returned yet. Kids with talent still can't make a decent living at it, and need lots of family money and/or other backing to persevere and shine through. And before that, the US pro racing was so rich, that the top talent stayed in the system, literally earning millions, sometimes eclipsing what GP riders were making. Your countryman Mladin stayed here for a decade to dominate, and at the end he was making $4 Million in salary alone from Suzuki. Only Ben Spies advanced to the World scene, and unfortunately seems to have burned out quickly before achieving what was expected of him in GP.

Soz said:

There would be no shame for Hayden if he did go back to WSBK. It would be good for WSBK too.

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While I agree it would be great for SBK, and he would likely deliver BMW their coveted championship, I don't think Nicky would agree with you. Too many years with big-money factory teams in GP, making $3 Million salary + endorsements has probably jaded him a bit.

Dunno if you noticed but Spains, (and the rest of europes for that matter) economies havent been doing so well since 2008....

Soz said:

Dunno if you noticed but Spains, (and the rest of europes for that matter) economies havent been doing so well since 2008....

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True, but pro moto racing is second only to pro football in Spain, and actually more popular than F1. In the US, all of those are fringe sports compared to NASCRAP and other traditional ball/stick-and-ball sports.

Rumor is Stoner is looking to get back into MotoGP ..

And a whiner

JeffD said:

True, but pro moto racing is second only to pro football in Spain, and actually more popular than F1. In the US, all of those are fringe sports compared to NASCRAP and other traditional ball/stick-and-ball sports.

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Mmmmm dunno

Sport in Spain

Stoner returning to Ducati ?

Some more on the Stoner wants to return to MotoGP rumor:

Posted on 18th July 2013 source: Casey Stoner ritornerà in MotoGp e lo farà in Ducati


Translated into English :


Casey Stoner in MotoGP and he will return to Ducati
Written by: andrea caruso July 18, 2013 in Engines Post a comment

Casey Stoner, after having dropped out of the scene of the championship, just 27 years, due to a drop of passion result of poor management of the system by the MotoGP Dorna, could return "riding" on the Ducati.

Casey Stoner
Receive news from far away, namely Australia, country of birth of two-time world champion. According to reports from some sources very close to the pilot, it seems that Casey Stoner is suffering from "withdrawal" from races and that the Australian is determined to return to be part of the world moto GP and could do just riding "his" Ducati. Its because this motorcycle has won on the first world title in 2007, the second came on a Honda in 2011.


About this news Ducati has not responded, because you are still verifying the reliability of sources, but it seems that they are very close to the pilot and who have chosen to remain anonymous for your needs. So, after a period of pause and reflection, Casey Stoner could be present at the start of the championship 2014. It remains unclear with which bike decides to run because if one side is a growing desire to be part of the team of Borgo Panigale remember all the other statements made by Casey Stoner's Ducati team accusing the lack of professionalism, declarations, then, confirmed also on the number 46 world's most popular, Valentino Rossi.
It was not until the developments of this story but for fans of Moto GP would be nice to see Casey Stoner battle with Valentino Rossi, Pedrosa, Lorenzo and Marquez.

Lol

Soz said:

Well .... a fried wombat!!! Cooeeee cobber I'll eat a hat full of witchity grubs if he does!!!!

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+1... I think.

I don't know, he's been gone dog years as far as motogp is concerned. I'd have to see hime ride a few races before I crowned him.

What is it about the Ducati that makes it slightly off the pace in MotoGP? Is it the twin, the monocoque chassis, a combination of both, or just not enough development time on the chassis and/or engine to make it perform better?

The rider maybe.....

Soz said:

The rider maybe.....

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To a degree, yes. But, when Ducati was a powerhouse the rules favored their bikes. Now, they favor Honda and Yamaha. Do you really think Marquez could win on Hayden's Ducati?

Pilot said:

What is it about the Ducati that makes it slightly off the pace in MotoGP? Is it the twin, the monocoque chassis, a combination of both, or just not enough development time on the chassis and/or engine to make it perform better?

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It's a V4, not a twin. The generally-accepted argument was that only Casey Stoner had the particular skills to ride the carbon-fiber monocoque chassis and supposedly brutal power delivery V4 to victory. It was big egg on Rossi's face that he couldn't win on it after they tried all types of modifications - even going back to a twin-spar aluminum frame - to make it work. You can look up a lot of articles on what MotoGP watchers speculate to be the problems - lateral/torsional stiffness, weight transfer, Bridgestone tires, etc.

The other thing was that Honda and Yamaha keep raising their game every year. So if Ducati goes in the "wrong" direction with development, they end up even further behind. The guy behind the current design, Felippo Preziosi, has already been moved out of the way and left the company. IMHO to keep tweaking a design in hopes of improvement when the guy who dreamed it up isn't even around is spitting into the wind. They need a dramatic change, more like a clean sheet design. You have to believe that is what the Audi brass is demanding behind the scenes now that it is their money being spent.

Soz said:

The rider maybe.....

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Rossi did score two podiums on the Ducati, both in the wet, which I believe showed he still had skills as rain is the great equalizer in racing. It was the dry performance of the bike, which in 2011 was still an 800cc, where it was clearly behind the others.

I know, I know, I'm a Rossi fanboy. It's only because he's the GOAT

JeffD said:

... IMHO to keep tweaking a design in hopes of improvement when the guy who dreamed it up isn't even around is spitting into the wind. They need a dramatic change, ...

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I agree and it's too bad. I think they gave up too early. Not that they didn't try, but I think the design is ahead of its time.

bronch said:

To a degree, yes. But, when Ducati was a powerhouse the rules favored their bikes. Now, they favor Honda and Yamaha. Do you really think Marquez could win on Hayden's Ducati?

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His riding style is often compared to Stoner's, he's young, hungry, and fearless, so yeah maybe. I'd love to see him on it. I reckon he'd probably be the only rider at the moment who could!