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It's a V4, not a twin. The generally-accepted argument was that only Casey Stoner had the particular skills to ride the carbon-fiber monocoque chassis and supposedly brutal power delivery V4 to victory. It was big egg on Rossi's face that he couldn't win on it after they tried all types of modifications - even going back to a twin-spar aluminum frame - to make it work. You can look up a lot of articles on what MotoGP watchers speculate to be the problems - lateral/torsional stiffness, weight transfer, Bridgestone tires, etc.
The other thing was that Honda and Yamaha keep raising their game every year. So if Ducati goes in the "wrong" direction with development, they end up even further behind. The guy behind the current design, Felippo Preziosi, has already been moved out of the way and left the company. IMHO to keep tweaking a design in hopes of improvement when the guy who dreamed it up isn't even around is spitting into the wind. They need a dramatic change, more like a clean sheet design. You have to believe that is what the Audi brass is demanding behind the scenes now that it is their money being spent.
Rossi did score two podiums on the Ducati, both in the wet, which I believe showed he still had skills as rain is the great equalizer in racing. It was the dry performance of the bike, which in 2011 was still an 800cc, where it was clearly behind the others.
I know, I know, I'm a Rossi fanboy. It's only because he's the GOAT
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I agree and it's too bad. I think they gave up too early. Not that they didn't try, but I think the design is ahead of its time.
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His riding style is often compared to Stoner's, he's young, hungry, and fearless, so yeah maybe. I'd love to see him on it. I reckon he'd probably be the only rider at the moment who could!
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It's a V4, not a twin. The generally-accepted argument was that only Casey Stoner had the particular skills to ride the carbon-fiber monocoque chassis and supposedly brutal power delivery V4 to victory. It was big egg on Rossi's face that he couldn't win on it after they tried all types of modifications - even going back to a twin-spar aluminum frame - to make it work. You can look up a lot of articles on what MotoGP watchers speculate to be the problems - lateral/torsional stiffness, weight transfer, Bridgestone tires, etc.
The other thing was that Honda and Yamaha keep raising their game every year. So if Ducati goes in the "wrong" direction with development, they end up even further behind. The guy behind the current design, Felippo Preziosi, has already been moved out of the way and left the company. IMHO to keep tweaking a design in hopes of improvement when the guy who dreamed it up isn't even around is spitting into the wind. They need a dramatic change, more like a clean sheet design. You have to believe that is what the Audi brass is demanding behind the scenes now that it is their money being spent.
Rossi did score two podiums on the Ducati, both in the wet, which I believe showed he still had skills as rain is the great equalizer in racing. It was the dry performance of the bike, which in 2011 was still an 800cc, where it was clearly behind the others.
I know, I know, I'm a Rossi fanboy. It's only because he's the GOAT
Thanks JeffD! I can't help but speculate that the carbon fiber monocoque may be too ridged laterally/torsionally like you mentioned. Especially if the V4 engine hits super hard.
I don't know if it's an accurate analogy or not, but in the late 90's and into the 2000's Honda struggled with handling issues in Supercross and Motocross when switching to the new (at the time) twin spar aluminum chassis. The frame upgrade was done in the name of advanced tech, weight and increased rigidity. The end result was they had too much rigidity and the bike was harsh and would not be compliant particularly at high lean angles when the frame starts to become your suspension and needs to provide some feedback to the rider. The end result was racers getting spit off the bikes and loss of confidence in the bike. Lots of guys wanted the steel frame back rather than deal with the new chassis. Meanwhile, Honda was chasing wheel and tire setups to put a bandaid on the flawed design. The bottom line is it took Honda years to continue removing material from the frame in the right places to get the compliance back, but not before lots of racers and consumers leaving the brand and going to other older, tried and tested brands. Honda's current design is a shadow of the first frame in size and thickness of the spars so that the bike is more compliant and feedback makes it to the rider. Similar ideology has occurred with aluminum swingarms.
Similar lessons had to be learned with the transition from the 250cc 2 stroke to the 450 4 stroke. A horsepower race began and the 450cc engines hit so hard and got so fast they were scaring the crap out of even the fastest racers in the world. Since then the engines have been slightly mellowed out to make smoother more controlled power rather than having the biggest HP number. The smoother power allowed more control, reducing lap times.
I can't help but wonder if Ducati has found themselves in a somewhat similar situation with some of their more technologically advanced parts. What do you guys think?
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Some more information regarding Stoner
The plot thickens ..
motogp.com · Casey Stoner to test for HRC
The plot thickens ..
motogp.com · Casey Stoner to test for HRC
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Thats still a big step from returning to racing - on a Ducati.....
Its a clever move by Honda to get him back on their bike and wet his appetite again. That would be where he went if he did return.
But he doesnt want to return, is happy doing what he's doing, still gets his fix, and Honda have still got Marquez and Pedrosa anyway!
No witchity grubs for this bunyip!
Its a clever move by Honda to get him back on their bike and wet his appetite again. That would be where he went if he did return.
But he doesnt want to return, is happy doing what he's doing, still gets his fix, and Honda have still got Marquez and Pedrosa anyway!
No witchity grubs for this bunyip!
craigslistbuyermn
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Poor poor nicky
Dean Adams at Superbikeplanet.com apparently hates Stoner and has a scathing analysis of Stoner's sudden re-involvement in the paddock. He does make a good point (http://superbikeplanet.com/2013/Jul/130722a.htm) . You can skip to the bold part for the punchline:
"There were rumors all weekend at Laguna Seca of a rider shake up hitting the Honda's MotoGP program. Most believed that might manifest as either Stefan Bradl or Alvaro Bautista losing their rides for 2014, and Cal Crutchlow being drafted into that open position.
Seems the news was a little bigger than that.
HRC is set to announce that former world champion Casey Stoner will begin testing the 2014 RC213V and also the 213V customer bike in coming weeks.
It's unclear why Stoner is doing this. His recent statements about racing were that he is doing too much of it (he's racing cars in Australia) and he wants to spend even more time at home next year. Now he may be testing the RC as many as four times and is rumored to be mulling a wild card ride in 2013.
Just last season Stoner said he would not return to MotoGP racing unless "a lot of things changed".
Clearly very little has changed.
There are still massive press commitments for all factory riders, and fans who want autographs, two things that grated Stoner when he rode. Also, the travel schedule is still just as long and grueling and only goes to his native Australia once. What's more, production based CRT--a major reason Stoner said he was retiring "it's not a prototype championship any more" still exists.
Sure, he's a great rider but how sharknado would Stoner have went if he ran into lapped traffic yesterday at Laguna Seca without any waving blue flags like Marquez, Bradl and Rossi did? He probably would have retired on the spot.
None of the factors that Casey Stoner cited as reasons for retiring have changed. The only thing that has changed is that there is a young kid on the Honda now who doesn't mind signing autographs, spending time with fans and sponsors and is rocket fast on the bike. He looks set to re-write the record books. Because of this not many people talk about Casey Stoner these days. That's the only thing that has changed."
"There were rumors all weekend at Laguna Seca of a rider shake up hitting the Honda's MotoGP program. Most believed that might manifest as either Stefan Bradl or Alvaro Bautista losing their rides for 2014, and Cal Crutchlow being drafted into that open position.
Seems the news was a little bigger than that.
HRC is set to announce that former world champion Casey Stoner will begin testing the 2014 RC213V and also the 213V customer bike in coming weeks.
It's unclear why Stoner is doing this. His recent statements about racing were that he is doing too much of it (he's racing cars in Australia) and he wants to spend even more time at home next year. Now he may be testing the RC as many as four times and is rumored to be mulling a wild card ride in 2013.
Just last season Stoner said he would not return to MotoGP racing unless "a lot of things changed".
Clearly very little has changed.
There are still massive press commitments for all factory riders, and fans who want autographs, two things that grated Stoner when he rode. Also, the travel schedule is still just as long and grueling and only goes to his native Australia once. What's more, production based CRT--a major reason Stoner said he was retiring "it's not a prototype championship any more" still exists.
Sure, he's a great rider but how sharknado would Stoner have went if he ran into lapped traffic yesterday at Laguna Seca without any waving blue flags like Marquez, Bradl and Rossi did? He probably would have retired on the spot.
None of the factors that Casey Stoner cited as reasons for retiring have changed. The only thing that has changed is that there is a young kid on the Honda now who doesn't mind signing autographs, spending time with fans and sponsors and is rocket fast on the bike. He looks set to re-write the record books. Because of this not many people talk about Casey Stoner these days. That's the only thing that has changed."
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I agree entirely. Stoner is a whiner. He should keep his word and stay out of the sport. He is the Lleyton Hewitt of motorcycle racing!!
But - if he is getting his fix pf riding, which he obviously still enjoys, can contribute something back on the side by utilising his obvious talents, positively, by helping development of the factory AND customer bikes, which MIGHT help the sport overall, then perhaps that is a good thing. Right?
But - if he is getting his fix pf riding, which he obviously still enjoys, can contribute something back on the side by utilising his obvious talents, positively, by helping development of the factory AND customer bikes, which MIGHT help the sport overall, then perhaps that is a good thing. Right?
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I think that's kind of what I said....
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I personally wish Stoner would have stayed so Marky Mark could beat him, but it's worth not having to hear, see or listen to him the way it is now.
I'd be happy if he drops off the radar completely. He gives motorcycle racers a bad name.
Chris
I'd be happy if he drops off the radar completely. He gives motorcycle racers a bad name.
Chris
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This thread reminds me of all the street protesters regarding the Trayvon Martin case: enraged on poor information basking in their false competence.
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craigslistbuyermn
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I hope Rossi comes back to ducati
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