Oooooh.... 1199 & WSBK

They placed great in the second day too. Let's hope the tires hold in the race. Definitely stating to close the gap on both GP and SBK.

Aragon may not be the size of things as that loooong straight will cost them dearly in top speed .. top speed that may also be affected by less than optimal aerodynamics.. hopefully the bigger head fairing will play well..

they have been moving weight backwards with the different tank/subframe/pipes design .
moving 7 ltrs of fuel and the electronics backwards...

what we start seeing is the new air that Gigi has brought... the 'failure is not an option' attitude that was sooo lacking under Gobmeyer... and it reflects in drivers having confidence to push it harder than last year..

a win would be ever so nice... please let Canepa do it..

the eating of rear tire comes from the lack of the frame and the swingarm being attached to the engine.. there is no play... last year, they made 10 swingarms and came back to the stock one.. it all has to go through the spring as there is no flex anywhere else..

JeffD said:

So right. If the road-going ZX-10R had this technology, I'm not ashamed to say I would buy it in a heartbeat!

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It really is an elegant solution when you think about it. Better tire wear, able to pick up the throttle way sooner than anyone else. Plus it just downright sounds cool.

I haven't noticed any other team using this as of yet in wsbk. Just from watching the broadcasts anyway. I first noticed it in a broadcast the season before last. I can't remember what race specifically but the commentators were mentioning that Biaggi was complaining that the Kawi was now getting off the corners better than the v-4's and Twins. Sure enough they were following Sykes on onboard and I thought there was someone on a twin right on his ass mid corner. Post season journalists tests came around and a few mentioned it. But didn't deem to get much attention.

Now what is going to be really crazy is what manufactures are going to start including on road bikes because of the Evo rules. If they still want to play with those fancy toys, it's going to have to trickle down really fast. I think we are on the verge of a nuclear arms race for electronics on OEM bikes.

shakazulu12 said:

Now what is going to be really crazy is what manufactures are going to start including on road bikes because of the Evo rules. If they still want to play with those fancy toys, it's going to have to trickle down really fast. I think we are on the verge of a nuclear arms race for electronics on OEM bikes.

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This was my first thought when SBK announced this last year about EVO rule being standard. I was around when the RC-30 came out and I still lust after that bike. Can't wait to see what the new generation of the ZX-7RR, YZF-750SP, 888 SP, etc. will be. I just hope I can afford it!

Expect the next R to be 45-50k euros ..
Shaka is spot on .. One of the things they re working on is lean related throttle opening ..
Whack it open and as you get up , power will come ...

kope999R said:

Shaka is spot on .. One of the things they re working on is lean related throttle opening ..
Whack it open and as you get up , power will come ...

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Hmmm. I don't know how I feel about that. It reminds me of Formula 1 in the Schumacher glory days. TC/Launch Control/etc. got so sophisticated that many fans thought it removed too much of the driver's individual skill from the sport.

Not to take anything away from Schumacher or any other professional, but I hope it doesn't go too far. Perhaps I'm too old school and had just recently embraced the idea of TC saving me instead of my right wrist and all the other riding senses I worked to improve over 23 years before electronic aids. It used to be a badge of honor to have those skills in any degree.

It will be interesting to see how it's incorporated. My guess is that factory kit boxes are going to get far more adjustable than they are currently. Which may pose a problem for us mere mortals. The fastest guys in Moto GP are also using the least amount of electronic intervention according to various paddock sources during the broadcasts. With the current generation of electronics in club racing I notice the fast guys all turn them off or to the most minimum settings. But we are talking another planet from what the pros are using. Roadracing World has had a few articles where Chris Ulrich has samples everything from the Motech system attack was running in AMA a couple years back, the Marelli SRT system that is pretty popular, and culminating in the crazy Motech setup that Attack had installed on their CRT GP bike. Some of the technical details are eye opening, but as far as actual traction control is concerened, you still want the least intrusion you can get. So the skilled guys are still faster.

Heck, last week at the opening round of AFM, Pascarella destroyed everyone on a supersport legal R6. His competition was riding a mix of built 1000cc superbikes, one of which had a Marelli system installed, another damn near Graves spec R1 and a BMW with some pretty advanced electronic wizardry.

I agree ... But the R6 shows that 150 bhp is where more does have consequences. Go over it and the leap in raw skill and talent required to master it jumps a level higher .. Bsb does not use dtc but still the electronics regulate powerdelivery .. No doubt about it : electronics are here to stay .. Sorry casey ..

I agree 100%, I want a clone of your bike with a Marelli SRT system on it for sure. I'll probably get lapped by a teenager on an R6 with a stock exhaust. However at this point in my life I can safely assume I'm never getting paid to do this, so whatever makes me giggle like a child it is!

shaka, apart from the ludicrous extra 30K it would take to get a MMarelli that does more than the SSTK ecu i have now ( the 12K versions does about the same) the main reason i did not go fot it is that you need a topnotch race engineer standing next to it to most of the time to stay on that bike.

one of the main reasons that the riders ( including Neukircher) held back is because the MM people imposed on the teams were B-squad. the A-squad were all working on the Rossi- GP-dud. and that zapped confidence. Neukircher especially traced back some bad crashes to badly managed electronics..

For us mere mortals such a MM system is potentially lethal... imagine that you would have to lay 100% of the electronics into the hands of a guy working on his own somewhere fiddling with fuelmapping, throttle response, dtc, wheeliecontrol. all by himself without any factory involvment... typing away on a trial and error basis.. and you being his income.. doesn't sound comfortable, now does it...


The evo class being based on the Mitsubishi system that s more limited and already resides on the base will indeed let the progress trickle down...

the main difference will probably remain the capacity to program bike behaviour on a track per track / corner per corner level...

so even while keeping things simple and getting some aid from a ecu, there is loaads of giggle potential left, trust me..

kope999R said:

the main difference will probably remain the capacity to program bike behaviour on a track per track / corner per corner level...

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Sounds similar to the current Rolls-Royce Wraith. "Satellite Aided Transmission uses GPS data and the navigation system to predict the road ahead. It then automatically chooses the right gear on the eight speed transmission delivering power smoothly without any unnecessary gear changes.

I race without electronics and my success is proof enough for me


LOL.

Really curious how the WSBK 1199 are going to end up this year!!!!

Kope, stop bringing logic into this equation!

I still haven't ever seen anything about what the SSTK Ecu can or can't do. Other than it's expensive. The SRT system actually does have a decent level of support in the states. It's not the full blown factory setup. There are quite a few guys club racing with it these days oddly enough (and getting spanked by kids with R6's).

Regarding the turn by turn aspect, one thing that blew my mind while reading the test of the Attack CRT bike was that it can actually learn the track on it's own! Now Stanboli is pure genius when it comes to working with and building bikes. Heck, he designed his own chassis and everything. Yet at the same time, he has nowhere near the capacity of an OEM sponsored race team. So think about what they could actually trickle down if forced to. Particularly with the cost of electronics constantly decreasing.

ScrapperX said:

I guess people are saying the L-twin and the torque is the cause. I honestly think it's because they shifted more weight to the front on the Pani and needed to compensate for the light rear end getting squirly. Hence the stiff rear end, and new design changes like the adjustable swing arm on the R to make greater contact patch.

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ScrapperX, you are bang on right. The technical challenge has been keeping the rear end down and stable, hence why the R came out with the adjustable pin in the swing arm.

Currently the 1199 SL is the last of the panigale line, however we may be treated to a special 1199 WSBK version .. if Ducati do well.

Desmobill said:

They placed great in the second day too. Let's hope the tires hold in the race. Definitely stating to close the gap on both GP and SBK.

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Yup, Gugliano was half a second under Laverty's Superpole time from last year, and Chaz was in the mix too. Cuba Smrz is looking pretty racy on the Milsport Pani in BSB testing too, so however '14 ends up, it's looking a LOT more promising than last year in the early going.

CaliDuc said:

Currently the 1199 SL is the last of the panigale line, however we may be treated to a special 1199 WSBK version .. if Ducati do well.

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Really? The 1199 is going to be replaced when? 2015? Seems a bit quick. Will it be a 1098->1198 type of evolution? This is the first I've ever thought of this and how it will affect my purchase.

SBK < Giugliano makes the most of private testing at Jerez

Yes it would be great for Ducati to finally start being competitive again, especially in WSBK. MotoGP will be good also.

And like whats said here, the 1199 needs better race pace.

shakazulu12 said:

Kope, stop bringing logic into this equation!

I still haven't ever seen anything about what the SSTK Ecu can or can't do. Other than it's expensive. The SRT system actually does have a decent level of support in the states. It's not the full blown factory setup. There are quite a few guys club racing with it these days oddly enough (and getting spanked by kids with R6's).

Regarding the turn by turn aspect, one thing that blew my mind while reading the test of the Attack CRT bike was that it can actually learn the track on it's own! Now Stanboli is pure genius when it comes to working with and building bikes. Heck, he designed his own chassis and everything. Yet at the same time, he has nowhere near the capacity of an OEM sponsored race team. So think about what they could actually trickle down if forced to. Particularly with the cost of electronics constantly decreasing.

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Shaka ,
When you re building bikes of this complexity, it s wise to keep logic around . Especially when you re deciding on the 10k+ tickets . And in my book a 'decent level of support' just isn t good enough.As i can t afford to get it wrong, I m looking for top level of support. Or for something i know was developped within a top level surrounding. Call it factory. It s from digging deeper that you can get the facts complete . Such facts as that the Sstk cost me 400 euro. That i didi not have to install the 3k loom and that i can log the Aim evo4 logger onto the stock dash without having to install the aim dash so i could get the whole shabang for 2k instead of 13. All being fully setup for when the next batch of electronics hit town. Including all the evo class will bring such as wheelie control and shorter throttles if i had had kept logic out of my project, i d have spent an R more for a lesser bike. Hertkampf will give you such a bike for 125k .. Check m out ..

Lol, Kope I was agreeing with you in a sarcastic manner. Any crazy electronics package on a bike I race would mostly be there because of the cool lights on the dash. Simple truth is I personally believe most of us simply aren't good enough to utilize a lot of what is possible right now. I had an AMA Superbike set up with all kinds of fun HRC stuff that I bought from a pro racer. Simple truth was the electronics were dialed back so far as to not be a hinderence when riding on the edge that I simply left them off. I lacked the skill to utilize them on the edge. I think the perception that electronics allow you to wack the throttle open at any time with no consequence is a flawed one, otherwise gp riders wouldn't hi-side ever.

So yeah, it's potentially an awesome tool, but the reality is it's on most of our bikes for the giggle factor. Which is 100% fine with me. The majority of us aren't using these machines to anywhere near their potential, but that doesn't mean we aren't enjoying them to our full potential. And that's what it is all about IMHO. The things you have done to your bike in order to pursue your passions should be an inspiration to all of us track junkies.

Tx shaka ! i m here as i know it s tight knit community . Ans sharing is part of the fun . I know i can get lost a bit too much in it all but i m very cautious on how to manage the risk that is definatly there. Getting the bike under me better so i can evolve with it is a great joy. Especially planning , weighing cost/potential reward, doing and then finding out it actually works . It s so easy to throw money at things . Getting results is another thing . And doing so in relation to the investment another thing ..

As mostly, i agree fully. We put on slicks and that is a wise thing as it is the best tire possible. But we haven t got a clue on how far we remain from what those tires actually can do. To find out takes 3 times the talent and a death defying wish to keep falling off. Wgich none of us have. I see plenty of the fallers but none with the talent. Top racers ride in another world of references. And braking is probably the biggest difference

Still im happy i did waht i did to the bike . As i m sure it will avoid me crashing ever so often..