Panigale's future on the rocks

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As with any "superbike" the true litmus test is world super stock. It shows what an "off the floor bike" is and what it can do.

I came off an RC8R, so the aftermarket industry for the 1199 is awesome by comparison...lol. It is actually exceptional if you think the bike has only been out a few seasons.

The only bad thing I can say about this bike is $3000 grand for a tank? WTF? Other than that, parts are priced on par with the exotic bike market....even cheaper in some instances.

I will say that we also need more examples on how to really take advantage of the set up of this bike as it is very, very adjustable and thus more temperamental. It's not built for the 50 percentile like a Honda or a Gixer. It's more like a multi-adjustable tool that needs to be dialed in from the get go.

Fast bikes mag did a piece where they gave out Hayden's suspension setting, but we need and probably will get more on the geometry side of setting up this bike. Another season or so and more insight will appear and the bike will blossom to its full potential.
 
i think the difference is that what conclusion you came too. . If you had just said that you feel there is a lack of aftermarket parts -fine. but somehow with your opinion of a lack of tail tidy that you came up with "panigale future on the rocks". That kind of discredits your entire post/existence and where people go - "huh, really ????"
 
Nah its cool, welcome to the 1199 community. Obviously u have interest in these sexy machines.
As for your comment just be more open minded. Maybe aftermarket parts are in the process still; when i first bought mine there was nothing; i made my own fender eliminator bracket.

And for racing; i fallow it a bit and i blame the riders & the fact that its a new team. They are still doing better than others.
 
Ashes said:
Better...

I thought my post was well written and well founded. I've done the research, I've heard about a search button, I provided examples...I don't see where I went wrong.
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Better ... in terms of bringing out a better design, better marketing, better prices and better customer service maybe? Do that first.

There are some guys here (LuxMachine - block offs, ronitduc - fender elem.,some with HID upgrades,Carbon fibr - integrated turn signals, me - exhaust modifiers ;) ) who try to make a difference instead of whining around.

So, it's up to you :D go out and DO it better. prove it to us.



Phil
 
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Phil said:
Better ... in terms of bringing out a better design, better marketing, better prices and better customer service maybe?

There are some gus here (LuxMachine - block offs, ronitduc - fender elem., HID updates, integrated turn signals, exhaust modifiers ;) ) who try to make a difference instead of whining around.

So, it's up to you :D



Phil
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Fair point. ;)

Thanks to all who have responding with anything more than straight negativity. Your responses are appreciated.
 
do you even own a ducati? my next question to you Ashes is at the end of the day bottom line every one on here that owns a 1199 owns a STREET Legal Race bike. to be honest if i could drive around without blinkers a tail light no mirrors i would. the only reason any of us change the stock parts is that we are trying in our own way to make the bike legal without getting stopped by police and stream line with the aftermarket parts. i got a tail light from tbot and a comp werkes plate holder. guess what you only see the 2 dots on the light during the day and the plate frame is cheap. which it can be made from sheet metal purchased anywhere I really dont care!!! its only there for "legal reasons" other than that i'd leave them off if i could. the bike runs and drives "wicked pissa" besides i own a ducati i get head turns with/out aftermarket parts. ITS Ducati!

Good day Sir
 
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jjsC6 said:
I have a question, and it's a serious question. Why are you here posting this? Do you own a Panigale and now you are pissed off that you made a bad decision? Do you not own one and are pissed off that after your research you have decided its not for you? Like I said, serious question - whats the point of your post?

I bought mine six months ago and it does exactly what I want it to do. I could care less that it's not winning races. I could care less that the aftermarket is not making this or that for the bike. I did all that homework before I bought the bike.

Just to be clear, I respect what forums are about and that your opinion is okay. The part that set everyone off starts with the title that basically says you are predicting the demise of the bike because of your perceived weakness of the bike.
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So to add a little history, I've been anticipating the release of the 1199 ever since spy photos first surfaced. The hype as I'm sure you remember was absolutely earth shattering. I think we were all expecting something revolutionary, and to a certain degree I believe we got it. Whats disappointing to see is the lack of success we've had in the racing scene and I suppose thats where the title and general frustration comes from.

I realize motogp holds no bearing on their production bikes but more often then not we see trickle down technology from the GP bikes. If they want to remain competitive in sstk and wsbk they need a competitive production bike. Which the 1199 hasn't been, regardless of what a gem it might be. A lot of guys out there have speculated a stark departure from Ducati heritage with a possible foray into V4 or I4 technology and I agree. The superquadro just isnt keeping up it seems. But who knows, the tables may turn. Possibly we'll witness the demise of their monocoque chassis in favor of the tried and true trellis frame or beam frame like the GP13 bike already has.

Also, Audi's acquisition of Ducati says alot considering their racing pedigree is damned important to them. They expect nothing but the best when it comes to auto racing and I think they will have the same expectations of their motorcycle subsidiary.

Some dont care about the racing, or simply just enjoy their bike for what it is. Which is great. My intention wasn't to "predict their bikes demise" or to insult anyone. I personally do not own one yet, although that is the goal. Despite some of the discouraging conjecture, I love this bike and want to purchase one shortly. I would just be extremely angry if I purchased one to find a complete overhaul taking place within the following few years.

Like you, I like to get all my ducks in a row before a big purchase. So i've been going through planning out mods and the like. The latest of which was fender eliminators and IT's. There really isn't alot out there, especially compared to the Japanese bikes I come from. So maybe the frustration that emanated through is a culmination of everything i've stated. For 24-30k I want something that I am 100% happy with, even if its not the fastest or "best" bike out there. Then constantly running into negative reviews, let downs, conjecture, and speculation of failure, some of which might be self exaggerated...it becomes discouraging, not to mention half the nitwits on here who take my concerns way too personally. I can honestly say my current toys wouldn't be half of what they are if it weren't for the collective knowledge of all the forums i'm already a member of. If these guys are a representation of the community I have to look forward to, Ill find a different Ducati forum.
 
Ashes said:
So to add a little history, I've been anticipating the release of the 1199 ever since spy photos first surfaced. The hype as I'm sure you remember was absolutely earth shattering. I think we were all expecting something revolutionary, and to a certain degree I believe we got it. Whats disappointing to see is the lack of success we've had in the racing scene and I suppose thats where the title and general frustration comes from.

I realize motogp holds no bearing on their production bikes but more often then not we see trickle down technology from the GP bikes. If they want to remain competitive in sstk and wsbk they need a competitive production bike. Which the 1199 hasn't been, regardless of what a gem it might be. A lot of guys out there have speculated a stark departure from Ducati heritage with a possible foray into V4 or I4 technology and I agree. The superquadro just isnt keeping up it seems. But who knows, the tables may turn. Possibly we'll witness the demise of their monocoque chassis in favor of the tried and true trellis frame or beam frame like the GP13 bike already has.

Also, Audi's acquisition of Ducati says alot considering their racing pedigree is damned important to them. They expect nothing but the best when it comes to auto racing and I think they will have the same expectations of their motorcycle subsidiary.

Some dont care about the racing, or simply just enjoy their bike for what it is. Which is great. My intention wasn't to "predict their bikes demise" or to insult anyone. I personally do not own one yet, although that is the goal. Despite some of the discouraging conjecture, I love this bike and want to purchase one shortly. I would just be extremely angry if I purchased one to find a complete overhaul taking place within the following few years.

Like you, I like to get all my ducks in a row before a big purchase. So i've been going through planning out mods and the like. The latest of which was fender eliminators and IT's. There really isn't alot out there, especially compared to the Japanese bikes I come from. So maybe the frustration that emanated through is a culmination of everything i've stated. For 24-30k I want something that I am 100% happy with, even if its not the fastest or "best" bike out there. Then constantly running into negative reviews, let downs, conjecture, and speculation of failure, some of which might be self exaggerated...it becomes discouraging, not to mention half the nitwits on here who take my concerns way too personally. I can honestly say my current toys wouldn't be half of what they are if it weren't for the collective knowledge of all the forums i'm already a member of. If these guys are a representation of the community I have to look forward to, Ill find a different Ducati forum.
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Good post. I can't disagree with your comments, but I'll add this. As you say, the Panigale is a very advanced design in terms of both the engine and frame/chassis. Any time a manufacturer comes out with something that is new technology, or just a significant advancement of technology it takes time to sort it out. The good news to me is that the engines are not breaking in half due to the stresses of the frame, and the bike is solidly in the top two or three in various comparison tests, and they all comment on the passion of riding the bike (in a good way). Which is how I feel about the bike.
 
Zaid1199 said:
do you even own a ducati? my next question to you Ashes is at the end of the day bottom line every one on here that owns a 1199 owns a STREET Legal Race bike. to be honest if i could drive around without blinkers a tail light no mirrors i would. the only reason any of us change the stock parts is that we are trying in our own way to make the bike legal without getting stopped by police and stream line with the aftermarket parts. i got a tail light from tbot and a comp werkes plate holder. guess what you only see the 2 dots on the light during the day and the plate frame is cheap. I really dont care!!! its onlt there for "legal reasons" other than that i'd leave them off if i could. the bike runs and drives "wicked pissa" besides i own a ducati i get head turns with/out aftermarket parts. ITS Ducati!

Good day Sir
Click to expand...

We are in complete agreement. My interest in fender eliminators is because I want the mirrors, lights, dot equipment gone. Like you, I want a barely street legal race bike. Unfortunately, the few options I do like, tbots light, and bucci's FE, no longer exist.
 
jjsC6 said:
Good post. I can't disagree with your comments, but I'll add this. As you say, the Panigale is a very advanced design in terms of both the engine and frame/chassis. Any time a manufacturer comes out with something that is new technology, or just a significant advancement of technology it takes time to sort it out. The good news to me is that the engines are not breaking in half due to the stresses of the frame, and the bike is solidly in the top two or three in various comparison tests, and they all comment on the passion of riding the bike (in a good way). Which is how I feel about the bike.
Click to expand...

Now we're seeing eye to eye! :D I couldn't agree more that the Pani's done well considering it really is the cutting edge. Like you mentioned, I've noticed the reviewers ALWAYS speak of how the bikes personality, passion, and charisma outweigh whatever short comings it might have. Sadly i cant attest to that yet, as I've only read the numbers and graphs. Which sometimes, like when I first saw the power/torque curves, make me go yikes.
 
ttkarp said:
So you don't own one. Have you ridden one? Have you searched this forum for photos of the amazing machines many members have constructed from the aftermarket you insist doesn't exist. Look for Gunny, Evol & Caliduc for examples (many other great examples too). If you haven't ridden one I completely understand your ignorance. If you have, then maybe this bike just isn't for you. But the "hi, I'm new here and all of your bikes suck" strategy likely won't get you far on this forum.
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Like stated above, no and no. I have searched this forum fervently, which honestly wasn't too bad as its history is relatively short. The 1199 is a beauty and many have gone above and beyond with it. The misinterpretation was exactly that, people assuming im insulting their bike.
 
Ashes said:
Lol. Rizoma does make some great stuff but they seem to be lacking products for the 1199. Either way, nice bike 357! On a side note, do you like the gas cap or do you find having to have a separate key for it annoying at times?

Again, for those who feel I am attacking their beloved Pani, I am not. I praise this bike just the same as you do, my frustration isn't directed towards Ducati, but rather the aftermarket support.

Fragile-That's the first time I've heard it put that way. "A rider just needs to meet its extreme potential half way in confidence and the bike will be placing podiums." Very eloquent.
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The only thing that I am dissapointed in that I installed so far is probably the mirrors... not in the look but the functionality, both my arms are in the way and it is more annoying to move them than it was on my 848 with the short mirrors those had. Might go back to OEM or look at other options. The "Feel" levers are real nice, feel almost like stock levers, not a big fan of shorty's so thats why I picked these, and the guys I talked to on the phone at Rizoma said they preffered the Feel over the RRC levers. Fluid tanks really make the bike look futuristic. Very happy with them. Gas cap looks real good, I don't mind the key at all, it's a sharp little upgrade. Pegs are much much better than stock (self explanatory)
 
Hmm ..

I can feel a Panigale mods thread coming on ..
 
Ashes said:
If they want to remain competitive in sstk and wsbk they need a competitive production bike. Which the 1199 hasn't been, regardless of what a gem it might be. A lot of guys out there have speculated a stark departure from Ducati heritage with a possible foray into V4 or I4 technology and I agree. The superquadro just isnt keeping up it seems. But who knows, the tables may turn. Possibly we'll witness the demise of their monocoque chassis in favor of the tried and true trellis frame or beam frame like the GP13 bike already has.

Also, Audi's acquisition of Ducati says alot considering their racing pedigree is damned important to them. They expect nothing but the best when it comes to auto racing and I think they will have the same expectations of their motorcycle subsidiary.

Some dont care about the racing, or simply just enjoy their bike for what it is. Which is great. My intention wasn't to "predict their bikes demise" or to insult anyone. I personally do not own one yet, although that is the goal. Despite some of the discouraging conjecture, I love this bike and want to purchase one shortly. I would just be extremely angry if I purchased one to find a complete overhaul taking place within the following few years.
Click to expand...

I really don't understand the comments about the Panigale not being a competitive platform. WSBK is fun to watch because it demonstrates how far a platform can be pushed to the limits (albeit with a VERY high price tag), but Superstock1k is easily the closest representation of the bikes and modifications we have access to.

Watch this SSK race from Assen this year and then tell me this isn't a competitive platform. There is certainly room for improvement but the design is far from a bust in the racing field.

Assen 2013 Superstock 1000 Race - YouTube
 
Ashes, you have to remember economy of scales. Even though Ducati had record sales with the Panigale, it's only a small fraction/percentage of what the Japanese bikes are producing and selling. Most aftermarket companies will produce stuff for larger markets (low cost high volume) to get their investment/Development cost back and to make some profit. Only a specialized few will make stuff for the exotics or the high cost low volume bikes and the specialized few (Rizoma, Akrap, Termi, AR, CNC, etc) will make their parts expensive. This has always been the case.
 
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Don't worry so much about the cosmetic stuff - once you ride the bike all that ceases to matter. I stopped caring about that kind of thing long ago - I'd rather save my upgrade $$$ for the things that matter. Concentrate on some upgrades that will help you ride better - for example, my only upgrades so far have been seat (comfort seat for more grip) and new pegs (again, more grip). I expected exhaust systems to be expensive based on the configuration. When I picked up my bike the dealer had a Tricolor there with Termis that he started up and let me hear the difference. Not much, definitely not $1800 difference.

Model life is probably 4-6 years anyway; we're already closing in on the end of year 2. There will be a new Ducati superbike out this decade, maybe 2 of them. They will be better than the 1199. Hopefully the next bike will be a V4. Until then I'll enjoy my 1199.
 
Ashes said:
We are in complete agreement. My interest in fender eliminators is because I want the mirrors, lights, dot equipment gone. Like you, I want a barely street legal race bike. Unfortunately, the few options I do like, tbots light, and bucci's FE, no longer exist.
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then your .... out of luck buddy, so go and do the next best thing, buy the ones closest to what you like, or better yet, contact those guys and offer double the price for the item. That doesn't mean the 1199 is on the .... your nuts!! simple fix, just remove the stock parts you don't like and drive like that. But you should good buy one before you write on this forum only to get malled from true owners
 
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I am locking this thread.... I don't see any good/value coming from it....
 
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