Please check all your bolts

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is that germane to bolts not being loctited at the factory?

edit: and let me add that all of my ducatis always had bolts come loose and/or fall out, except for a lowly old monster 900...

Jariva said:
Do you ride a Panigale?
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Had to Google "germane", not in my everyday vocabulary.

Yes, it is germane. If you are a Panigale owner, I put more value on your comments about the bike, the Ducati reliability, the design issues etc. If you are not a Panigale owner then I can mostly ignore your comments about Panigale.

Yes or no, Panigale owner or not? Simple Y or N will do if it is so difficult.
 
VAST said:
is that germane to bolts not being loctited at the factory?

edit: and let me add that all of my ducatis always had bolts come loose and/or fall out, except for a lowly old monster 900...
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Geeze Vast - why don't you just answer the question which Pani - I cannot believe a simple question got all these reactions.

P.S. In all the Pani's I have ever owned, I have only had one loose screw, none fell out. That's a Harley thing.
 
Capt CF said:
I think I've been conditioned to expect things like this by prior Duc ownership so it doesn't give me conniptions. Ideally, yeah, it would be nice if everything was done correctly from the get go, but I am not going to sell the bike and get something I don't like as well (HP4, R1, April.., er, Busa) just because I think Ducati should have done some things better. I think it boils down to a personal decision point for each owner and I think this is true with most things you buy that have a high desirability factor like bikes. The amount of visceral reaction or love you have for the object when you first desire it is overwhelming...you must have it. Then you get it and reality settles in a bit and you realize it has a few warts. The point at which the warts outweigh the love is different for each person so I think we are seeing some people hit the "warted out" stage at this point and they should probably sell it. I think I have said it before in another thread, but it bears repeating. If mine starts giving me a ton of trouble and ends up sitting in the shop or on the stands more than it is being ridden mine will go the way of the dinosaur as well.

Another factor is the number of visible warts prior to purchase. I got my Pani later than a lot of folks since I was waiting for the colorless version (2013). Because of that, I was already aware of the heat issue, loosening bolts, darkening fluids, ejector cowl, etc. etc. so although these warts were annoying they weren't a surprise. I think the surprise warts really erode the love of the bike much faster than the ones I already had a heads up about. :)
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Being a powertrain engineer, I find it totally unacceptable and basically a sign of incompetant engineering to design a bolted joint where bolts frequently come loose... We have formulas for these types of things when designing a joint... And when all else false, we at least specify the type and amount of loctite on assembly drawings. It's really not like engine vibrations are something "new", nor are bolts. At my company, the engineer that signed off on the bolt selection, torque spec, loctite selection, etc wouldn't have a job any more. I still love the bike, but I'm going to call out a fault when I see one.
 
absolutely correct. but maybe in 2013 bolts falling out adds to "character" since no other sport bike has this issue. i LOVE Ducati, but come on!

transdesigner said:
Being a powertrain engineer, I find it totally unacceptable and basically a sign of incompetant engineering to design a bolted joint where bolts frequently come loose... We have formulas for these types of things when designing a joint... And when all else false, we at least specify the type and amount of loctite on assembly drawings. It's really not like engine vibrations are something "new", nor are bolts. At my company, the engineer that signed off on the bolt selection, torque spec, loctite selection, etc wouldn't have a job any more. I still love the bike, but I'm going to call out a fault when I see one.
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My question for VAST & Jariva.........will it be handbags at 10 paces or feather dusters at dawn?
 
transdesigner said:
Being a powertrain engineer, I find it totally unacceptable and basically a sign of incompetant engineering to design a bolted joint where bolts frequently come loose... We have formulas for these types of things when designing a joint... And when all else false, we at least specify the type and amount of loctite on assembly drawings. It's really not like engine vibrations are something "new", nor are bolts. At my company, the engineer that signed off on the bolt selection, torque spec, loctite selection, etc wouldn't have a job any more. I still love the bike, but I'm going to call out a fault when I see one.
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If eveyone that owned a Pani had screws/bolts falling out, fine. But a small percentage are having issues. A hand built bike is going to have all the cosmetic screws hand torqued to various amounts, just human. Like I said earlier, my 1978 Kaw said to tighten bolts before riding. People that aren't, should not complain. Simple. Oh, IMO!!
 
Why everything is so difficult here.

VAST, you claim you have vast experience in Ducatis. I asked about your Panigale. So below could you post N or Y? Simples.
 
Jariva said:
Why everything is so difficult here.

VAST, you claim you have vast experience in Ducatis. I asked about your Panigale. So below could you post N or Y? Simples.
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I have posted several times, you cannot make anyone do anything on this forum. Whether it is wear protective gear, or now, just if they own a Panigale. Huge argument posts have ensued because of this. Getting worse the more they go back and forth, each attempt trying to word a stong enough or clever enough post to make the OP turn their hand. I suggest giving up, or this thread will turn into a 'Pat' skit from SNL, everyone trying to think of a post to force Vast to turn his hand.
 
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Trauma said:
If eveyone that owned a Pani had screws/bolts falling out, fine. But a small percentage are having issues. A hand built bike is going to have all the cosmetic screws hand torqued to various amounts, just human. Like I said earlier, my 1978 Kaw said to tighten bolts before riding. People that aren't, should not complain. Simple. Oh, IMO!!
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I know what you're saying, but in the auto industry, you usually pay more for the "hand built" factor because it means that an expert assembled your engine and personally signed off on its build quality. Our bikes cost more than the Japanese or German bikes... therefore I would expect more quality out of them, not less. If I bought a new $4000 Hyosung, I would be more able to accept some loose bolts due to cost cutting or low end engineering.
 
best post gets the answer!

Trauma said:
I have posted several times, you cannot make anyone do anything on this forum. Whether it is wear proctetive gear, or now, just if they own a Panigale. Huge argument posts have ensued because of this. Getting worse the more they go back and forth, each attempt trying to word a stong enough or clever enough post to make the OP turn their hand. I suggest giving up, or this thread will turn into a 'Pat' skit from SNL, everyone trying to think of a post to force Vast to turn his hand.
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pure common sense from transdesigner! but common sense is too rational when dealing with "emotional" riding - LULZ!!!!


transdesigner said:
I know what you're saying, but in the auto industry, you usually pay more for the "hand built" factor because it means that an expert assembled your engine and personally signed off on its build quality. Our bikes cost more than the Japanese or German bikes... therefore I would expect more quality out of them, not less. If I bought a new $4000 Hyosung, I would be more able to accept some loose bolts due to cost cutting or low end engineering.
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mark419ny said:
Rocket v twin that gets smoked by ape bmw and stays even with most other liter bikes but hey I PAID 10K MORE FOR IT
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Wow- i ride with a group of guys who are really good riders every weekend and go to track days together and I can understand the BMW on a straight it accelerate quickly to top end but the Ape, zx10, gsxr1000, Repsol, r1 can't keep up with me period. It's the same every week through the caynons hwy 33 to 166 The ape is on my six through the twisties canyons but loose him on long straights the BMW over takes the Ape on the straight and catches up to me but end of the road only gas station on the road ahead (70 miles) I win :) BMW second , APE then comes the zx10, gsxr, r1 then the Honda repsol. We often swap bikes and the outcome is usually the same. But honestly regardless of what people say about Honda's, on the track the Repsol is freakin smooth hard to beat its lap time. It's comfortable, stable and stays on its line. My best laptime is on my buddies Repsol at Streets of Willow.

I've found if you Dial down or turn off the traction control the Pani gets way faster.
 
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Trauma said:
I have posted several times, you cannot make anyone do anything on this forum. Whether it is wear proctetive gear, or now, just if they own a Panigale. Huge argument posts have ensued because of this. Getting worse the more they go back and forth, each attempt trying to word a stong enough or clever enough post to make the OP turn their hand. I suggest giving up, or this thread will turn into a 'Pat' skit from SNL, everyone trying to think of a post to force Vast to turn his hand.
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Makes sense. I just asked a simple question to make it easier for me to understand the background of the various comments. I know many people have had sometimes serious problems with their Panigales. It is good to learn about these problems. I just want to foresee if I might have the same problems with my bike in the future. It does not help to have a non-Pani owner to post various comments about the Pani reliability if he actually does not have one. Old Ducs are old Ducs and the problems were there. I have had no problems with with my Diavel and so far the Pani has been good. Both are late model Ducs without problems.

No offense to anybody, I just put more value on the long term Pani rider's comments rather than put too much attention to guys who do not ride one. That is why I asked the questions.
 

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