Proves 46 is nothing special

mark419ny · Nov 18, 2013

Ducatisti Owe Rossi an Apology | Ducati News Today

read the article he did no better than anyone else on the ducati. if he was so good he would have done better than the rest that rode it. ducati doesnt owe 46 anything as matter of fact 46 owes ducati an appology for changing the bike the way 46 and JB wanted it and put them even further behind.

Capt CF · Nov 18, 2013

I read this differently. No matter who you are if you throw a leg over the Ducati be prepared for no better than a mid-pack finish. Granted, you always look for the anti-Rossi angle, but I see this as purely anti-Ducati. The bike sucks, plain and simple and nobody can win on it.

transdesigner · Nov 18, 2013

I read it the same as Capt... basically says the Ducati is uncompetitive junk no matter who rides it.

Although I get what you mean saying he should've done better than the other riders... basically he should've been coming in 6th instead of 7th or 8th like hayden and dovi....lol

Stw · Nov 18, 2013

I read it down the middle..Rossi only finished 4th this year on a bike capable of at least 2nd..... GP13 needs plenty of work... Lets see what 2014 brings.... Cal will improve things...(famous last words I know)..

mark419ny · Nov 18, 2013

i read it as yes the bike is crap but whoever rides it finishes the same so if your the great rossi you should do better than nicky dovi etc. etc. he did no better or worse than those riders. actully the guy with the last comment sums up my thoughts.

46 is nothing special Ducatisti Owe Rossi an Apology | Ducati News Today read the article he did no better than anyone else on the ducati. if he was so good he would have […]

MacaveliMC · Nov 18, 2013

LOL what??? You totally twisted this article then just made up your own ending.

Clearly Ducati is a disaster that nobody can ride competitively. If one or two people were successful then you might have a reason to blame the others, but no one was (with the sole exception of Casey Stoner who was riding a completely different bike on different tires). If you give them all pedal bikes I'm sure you'll have the same results - no one stands out.

But who stood out above the rest between 2002 and 2009??

"yeah but he had the best equipment!"

Honda is far and away the dominant manufacturer for the last 20 years, winning 12 of them. Arguably the ONLY reason they didn't win 4 more of those was because Rossi decided to jump off the Honda (the "best equipment") and onto a Yamaha, and school them 4 times in 7 years! Sounds pretty special to me.

If you don't think 46 is anything special, there are 9 championships, skyrocketing TV ratings, billions of dollars, and one of the largest fan clubs in the world that begs to disagree.

A rider isn't the only factor into his success, the equipment and chief mechanic/set up play huge roles, and success is determined by all three of those variables. History shows we have every reason to believe that Valentino Rossi does a very good job at fulfilling the riders roll compared to pretty much everyone else. If Hayden, Dovi, Spies or Cal have huge success on the same bike then we may have reason to doubt it, but so far not so much.

You can dislike Rossi all u want, but please don't deny how special of a rider he has proven to be in his career and to the sport. I'm not a huge fan of Jorge, but I can easily admit he is one of the most talented and unique riders out there without ever cheering for him.

transdesigner · Nov 18, 2013

Rossi is just old now... I guess I don't see the point of even comparing how he is doing now to his younger years. When Schumacher returned to F1, he had a very poor showing... does that mean he sucked in his younger years and all the other drivers he won championships against were not as good as any of the younger guys beating him when he returned? I would say no, he and Rossi are just older and slower now... no racer i know of in motogp or F1 has kept winning races into their older years.. they are always displaced by the Marquezs and the Vettels rising up. And eventually Marquez and Vettel will get older and some young kids will be faster than them. All just my opinion, but point is i'm not sure making comparisons with Rossi's current level are all that valid.

And btw Mark, I like Stoner better too, so I'm not defending Rossi because I'm a fan

ghostdog6 · Nov 18, 2013

mark419ny said:
Ducatisti Owe Rossi an Apology | Ducati News Today

read the article he did no better than anyone else on the ducati. if he was so good he would have done better than the rest that rode it. ducati doesnt owe 46 anything as matter of fact 46 owes ducati an appology for changing the bike the way 46 and JB wanted it and put them even further behind.

I think you read that about as ass-backwards as it was possible to read it. perhaps Rossi, just like everyone else who has thrown a leg over that bike, found the limit of what the bike is capable of? The rider isn't the limiting factor. The bike is.

MacaveliMC · Nov 18, 2013

transdesigner said:
Rossi is just old now... I guess I don't see the point of even comparing how he is doing now to his younger years. When Schumacher returned to F1, he had a very poor showing... does that mean he sucked in his younger years and all the other drivers he won championships against were not as good as any of the younger guys beating him when he returned? I would say no, he and Rossi are just older and slower now... no racer i know of in motogp or F1 has kept winning races into their older years.. they are always displaced by the Marquezs and the Vettels rising up. And eventually Marquez and Vettel will get older and some young kids will be faster than them. All just my opinion, but point is i'm not sure making comparisons with Rossi's current level are all that valid.

And btw Mark, I like Stoner better too, so I'm not defending Rossi because I'm a fan

When Marquez gets older and slower, can I start threads about how slow and overrated he is?

mark419ny · Nov 18, 2013

MacaveliMC said:
LOL what??? You totally twisted this article then just made up your own ending.

Clearly Ducati is a disaster that nobody can ride competitively. If one or two people were successful then you might have a reason to blame the others, but no one was (with the sole exception of Casey Stoner who was riding a completely different bike on different tires). If you give them all pedal bikes I'm sure you'll have the same results - no one stands out.

But who stood out above the rest between 2002 and 2009??

"yeah but he had the best equipment!"

Honda is far and away the dominant manufacturer for the last 20 years, winning 12 of them. Arguably the ONLY reason they didn't win 4 more of those was because Rossi decided to jump off the Honda (the "best equipment") and onto a Yamaha, and school them 4 times in 7 years! Sounds pretty special to me.

If you don't think 46 is anything special, there are 9 championships, skyrocketing TV ratings, billions of dollars, and one of the largest fan clubs in the world that begs to disagree.

A rider isn't the only factor into his success, the equipment and chief mechanic/set up play huge roles, and success is determined by all three of those variables. History shows we have every reason to believe that Valentino Rossi does a very good job at fulfilling the riders roll compared to pretty much everyone else. If Hayden, Dovi, Spies or Cal have huge success on the same bike then we may have reason to doubt it, but so far not so much.

You can dislike Rossi all u want, but please don't deny how special of a rider he has proven to be in his career and to the sport. I'm not a huge fan of Jorge, but I can easily admit he is one of the most talented and unique riders out there without ever cheering for him.

i never denied what he has done for the sport. my disagreement with people is that he is this special rider so called GOAT which he is clearly not and never was. yes he went out and won the races that says something however he clearly had the best team best bike most money etc. i wont rehash old stuff bottom line is dovi and nicky had same results as rossi. if rossi was so great he would have had better results. now he is on the same bike as JLO and came in 4th where JLO came in second and was injured for 2 races and missed one. if he was so great why didnt he at least match jlo

mark419ny · Nov 18, 2013

MacaveliMC said:
When Marquez gets older and slower, can I start threads about how slow and overrated he is?

when MM is older and slower i will say its time to hang them up. stoner hung them up a little early but that was his choice. Much like Barry sanders but in my opinion id rather go out on top or as close to it then be like (sorry to say this cause he was my favorite fighter ever) Roy Jones JR.

mark419ny · Nov 18, 2013

slightly off topic here but i started watching 2010 125 races again on motogp stream. damn there were a lot of guys in that class with MM that are either in or just getting in now. Pol and bradly smith to name 2. if pol was in it when MM was in it and smith (mm and smith were both rookies this year) why is Pol a year behind?

MacaveliMC · Nov 18, 2013

mark419ny said:
i never denied what he has done for the sport. my disagreement with people is that he is this special rider so called GOAT which he is clearly not and never was. yes he went out and won the races that says something however he clearly had the best team best bike most money etc. i wont rehash old stuff bottom line is dovi and nicky had same results as rossi. if rossi was so great he would have had better results. now he is on the same bike as JLO and came in 4th where JLO came in second and was injured for 2 races and missed one. if he was so great why didnt he at least match jlo

As long as he holds the most titles of the modern GP era, I'd say it is completely appropriate for him to hold on to the label of GOAT, until someone takes it from him. Perhaps others could hold onto that label for other eras, but I think he has the current one on lock down.

I think ghostdog made a very good point about the riders maxing out the Ducati's ability. If a bike is crap, maxing it out isn't going to lead to much. If a machine is junk you can't judge how good a rider is compared to others.

I'd also have a hard time judging him getting back on the Yamaha vs Jorge since Jorge's been fine tuning it for the last few years. Granted by the end of the season you'd hoped he would find something, and that's exactly why he is changing the only variable he can - his chief mechanic. Next year we'll know without a doubt whether Rossi is truly slowing down, or if his team was "slowing down". I still think he is far more talented than a Dovi or even a Nicky, simply based on what he did by the time he was where they are in their careers.

But saying he is nothing special because he couldn't do anything with the Ducati that Dovi and Nicky couldn't do is like saying he can't make a motorcycle do a higher top speed in a straight line when it's maxed out in the gearing. Of course not, because it's at the limit. Same with the Ducati, it's such a disaster that any GP rider can probably take it to the limit, which clearly isn't very high.

mark419ny · Nov 18, 2013

MacaveliMC said:
As long as he holds the most titles of the modern GP era, I'd say it is completely appropriate for him to hold on to the label of GOAT, until someone takes it from him. Perhaps others could hold onto that label for other eras, but I think he has the current one on lock down.

I think ghostdog made a very good point about the riders maxing out the Ducati's ability. If a bike is crap, maxing it out isn't going to lead to much. If a machine is junk you can't judge how good a rider is compared to others.

I'd also have a hard time judging him getting back on the Yamaha vs Jorge since Jorge's been fine tuning it for the last few years. Granted by the end of the season you'd hoped he would find something, and that's exactly why he is changing the only variable he can - his chief mechanic. Next year we'll know without a doubt whether Rossi is truly slowing down, or if his team was "slowing down". I still think he is far more talented than a Dovi or even a Nicky, simply based on what he did by the time he was where they are in their careers.

But saying he is nothing special because he couldn't do anything with the Ducati that Dovi and Nicky couldn't do is like saying he can't make a motorcycle do a higher top speed in a straight line when it's maxed out in the gearing. Of course not, because it's at the limit. Same with the Ducati, it's such a disaster that any GP rider can probably take it to the limit, which clearly isn't very high.

i as well see what you are saying about maxing the bike. good point.

centeroff · Nov 18, 2013

When you put a bunch of different riders on the same bike, and they are all doing the same relative lap times and getting the same results, the bike is the limiting factor.
The European/British manufactures have the mindset that their stuff is perfect and the rider is the problem. That is why the japs were able to come in and grab everyone's market share. They would listen to their riders and make whatever changes were needed for performance, and reliability and build a better mouse trap.
It has been nice to see the resurgence of European bikes in racing, and I have no doubt that Ducati will be back on top of the podium in Moto GP, the year they won with Stoner they had a crushing combo superior horsepower and Stoner.

turnone · Nov 18, 2013

mark419ny said:
Ducatisti Owe Rossi an Apology | Ducati News Today

read the article he did no better than anyone else on the ducati. if he was so good he would have done better than the rest that rode it. ducati doesnt owe 46 anything as matter of fact 46 owes ducati an appology for changing the bike the way 46 and JB wanted it and put them even further behind.

It's so obvious that you are a Stoner fan and anything Rossi is bad.

Rossi is getting older and was on a bike that didn't work for him. It is most likely he didn't push hard as the payoff was maybe 5th or 6th but a LOT MORE RISK. Risk he didn't feel was worth it.

Until someone else comes along and wins more championships, especially on multiple teams, I don't think you can claim anyone to be better. He may not be the GOAT, but he sure is the greatest rider in the last 20 years.

Yes, I am a Rossi fanboy. I am one because he won so many races, won them in style, won on multiple brands. Raced and mixed it up, wasn't afraid to dice it out with anyone. Some great racing action. Didn't complain publicly. Gracious to the fans and media. Happy and upbeat personality. Funny English skills. Overall, great for the sport.

I like the MS comparison in F1. People get slower when they get older. It happens. He is still the 4 or 5th fastest rider on the grid. Most people are willing to take less chances once they become super rich and hold tons of records. The motivation to push the extra amount appears to diminish. Marky Mark is on the rise, pushes like crazy, takes tons of chances. Has skill out the ass. He has the potential to match Rossi. Maybe even beat him. but it is long way to go from wining one season and winning 7 championships at the highest level. I wish him well. I have a signed framed photo from 93 this season and the more he wins, the more I like it.

Stoner on the other hand...

zvez · Nov 18, 2013

I'm thinking we ought to create a anti-rossi subforum for markNY. I continue to be astonished at how much energy you must have that you waste so much time on anything even remotely Rossi, move on, puhleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeze!

You could always put "rossi sucks" in your sig line so that if their's anyone within a thousand miles of this forum who doesn't know your feelings will know immediately.

flobrandx · Nov 18, 2013

mark419ny said:
i never denied what he has done for the sport. my disagreement with people is that he is this special rider so called GOAT which he is clearly not and never was. yes he went out and won the races that says something however he clearly had the best team best bike most money etc. i wont rehash old stuff bottom line is dovi and nicky had same results as rossi. if rossi was so great he would have had better results. now he is on the same bike as JLO and came in 4th where JLO came in second and was injured for 2 races and missed one. if he was so great why didnt he at least match jlo

So, if Rossi is not "The GOAT" then who is in your eyes? Other than Agostini who comes close to Rossi's achievements? Sorry, but its not Stoner...

TricoloreSF · Nov 19, 2013

Jordan is better than Lebron

ttkarp · Nov 19, 2013

Mark could read a phone book and find an anti-Rossi angle

And could quite possibly find an anti-Panigale angle in a kids book on puppy dogs.

Proves 46 is nothing special

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