Racer rides the 2022 V4S

video has english captions

assume a K5 would be quicker than the soopairbike

Good vid and let’s face it, the dominant message from the riders own words “this bike is for amateurs and is dominated by rider aids to assist the rider” also no doubt, the bike is super fast. That’s all great but what does reality look like and how does that play into marketing. Ducati says about 5% of buyers will do track day events so what are you actually buying as the other 95% and ok we can give let’s say 20% of the bikes will see aggressive riding where some of that stuff matters but that leaves 75% of these bikes sold to guys that will never seen 30 degrees of lean angle. Why are these guys buying these bikes?

endodoc said:

Good vid and let’s face it, the dominant message from the riders own words “this bike is for amateurs and is dominated by rider aids to assist the rider” also no doubt, the bike is super fast. That’s all great but what does reality look like and how does that play into marketing. Ducati says about 5% of buyers will do track day events so what are you actually buying as the other 95% and ok we can give let’s say 20% of the bikes will see aggressive riding where some of that stuff matters but that leaves 75% of these bikes sold to guys that will never seen 30 degrees of lean angle. Why are these guys buying these bikes?

Click to expand...

Why do you care? I don’t track my V4S… I bought it because I enjoy riding it, wherever that might be. And while I know that seems crazy to you, it doesn’t affect you in any way.

Why does anyone buy anything?

We should all live off the land and be 100% self sufficient.

We have finally completed this forum.

dieonthishill said:

Why do you care? I don’t track my V4S… I bought it because I enjoy riding it, wherever that might be. And while I know that seems crazy to you, it doesn’t affect you in any way.

Click to expand...

Calm down little lady, it was a general observation and an inquisitive question and you ended up in a corner with a tissue. Man this place has gotten really weird.

endodoc said:

Calm down little lady, it was a general observation and an inquisitive question and you ended up in a corner with a tissue. Man this place has gotten really weird.

Click to expand...

Youre the one that asked the agro question in the first place… lol. Then you respond with calling me little lady? Everything okay? Anything you want to talk about? You seem bottled up.

I missed my last sensitivity class. My bad. My point was why not make a V4 base with lights, signals and an on/off switch. No electronic aids, wings, etc. The bike would be less money and identical in appearance which satisfies everyone who wants to “look the part” and just as fast when you want to blast down the highway but void of stuff they would never use and the bike would be more reliable from an electrical perspective as a vast majority of of Ducati issues are electronic in nature. Just an idea.

Also interesting that all the Ducati videos are all centric to that 5% market. Where are all the videos of guys putting down the highway headed to the coffee house who buy the majority of their “track capable” Superbikes. It’s just interesting.

RickD996 said:

Why does anyone buy anything?

We should all live off the land and be 100% self sufficient.

We have finally completed this forum.

Click to expand...

LOL! Love this

Agro is the new normal man, come on!!!

endodoc said:

I missed my last sensitivity class. My bad. My point was why not make a V4 base with lights, signals and an on/off switch. No electronic aids, wings, etc. The bike would be less money and identical in appearance which satisfies everyone who wants to “look the part” and just as fast when you want to blast down the highway but void of stuff they would never use and the bike would be more reliable from an electrical perspective as a vast majority of of Ducati issues are electronic in nature. Just an idea.

Also interesting that all the Ducati videos are all centric to that 5% market. Where are all the videos of guys putting down the highway headed to the coffee house who buy the majority of their “track capable” Superbikes. It’s just interesting.

Click to expand...

I dunno, all the gadgets and gizmos make people feel cool. Most people I know who track V4s don't really use the "high" power mode since it can make the throttle really twitchy, especially on stock fueling. But I know a dude who posts a video almost daily of him on his V4S in race mode hitting 130mph on a highway pull and bragging about how crazy fast he is because wheelie control is lighting up. They want to hear about slide control so they can turn it up and then tell everyone they're totally kicking out the rear driving out of corners in the twisties.

Not really shitting on them, I understand it. It's like launch control on hypercar, most people use it like once to show off but really it isn't about using launch control, it's about HAVING launch control. You may never use it, but just having it makes it cool I guess.

endodoc said:

…….Why are these guys buying these bikes?

Click to expand...

Hmmm? I’ll reply assuming this is a legitimate question. The answer(s) are as varied as there are different riders. So, I’ll give you mine. In the immortal words of my medically retired Army Medic Grandfather (stroke) when my uncle asked why he bought the 410ci, 4bbl carb, dual exhaust version of his 1967 Mercury Monterey. My uncle said “you’ll never use all that power going to the Doctor and the Commissary”.

My Grandfather replied “that’s true, but I know it’s there if I want it”.

His statement is pure logic and it applies to me as well. It trumps all those silly questions of why I bought “this” thing, or why “this” thing instead of “that” thing.

I’m 67, reasonably successful at life, and I have 3 turbocharged and tuned Ford Performance vehicles and 5 motorcycles. 3 have “old school” manual throttle cables, no IMU or other “safety” electronics. the remaining 2 have the very latest full IMU and GPS electronics systems. Why? Because I want them. End of discussion…

I guess my point was sales and marketing. All the marketing goes to the lowest % of users across the board. Guess which guys are in the official Ducati videos. The 5% and that goes for all the muscle car commercials as well. How come I never see a Mustang commercial where mom is picking up the kids or dad is stuck in traffic. I find it a bit fascinating that’s all.

endodoc said:

Calm down little lady, it was a general observation and an inquisitive question and you ended up in a corner with a tissue. Man this place has gotten really weird.

Click to expand...

yeah its turned to .... alright

Anyway Luca Savadori is fast, he's also pretty upfront as you say- the electronics are for amateurs. Street machines have better software than MotoGP and thats fantastic for us- good times!

Sales volume is directly correlated with profitability and long term survivability of the company.
Sales volume is indirectly correlated with race/performance use cases.

The eternal forces of nature banging away at opposite ends in every auto manufacturer: do you focus on sales volume (A) or do you focus on what made you famous in the first place (B)? This choice spares no one, not even Ferrari or Porsche.

100% of them pick (A) assuming that the racers will still buy the piece of crap mass market vehicle and put a ton of money into it to make it race worthy.

The only two manufacturers in known existence that answer with (B) are Kramer and Lotus. I don't know of anyone else.

It's really not too complicated. Marketing shows racers and whatnot for performance vehicles because it plants the subconscious idea that you become that guy if you buy the vehicle. Most Hellcat owners never do a single donut, but they think everyone who sees them in it believes they're a badass who rips fat burnouts and donuts for breakfast.

It's simple human psyche manipulation. Buy X and everyone will think you're the guy in the video. Is it true? Maybe not always. But the average normie sees a Ducati superbike and goes "wow, that guy must either be really fast or have a lot of money," neither of which are things most people would be upset about people believing. We often forget as members of the community that the average non-rider doesn't know most Panigales spend their lives either in garages or Starbucks parking lots.

It's really simple. These things are "Aspirational," and ambitions. "Aspirational marketing and design."
You don't sell anything shiny and wildly expensive by marketing it with "you're getting the standard, stay the same, don't grow." You sell things that are "aspirational."

Everyone who buys one wants to associate with the racing lifestyle, not everyone can do that all of the time. Some just get to look some get to practice and hope to become. Everyone starts out somewhere. There are a lot of people who study & work their ass off, raise kids etc, to arrive at middle age and finally have time to try out crazy stuff. Here they get a 200hp bike because they're all grown up now, and find out the physics of the situation. A tiny % of humans can manage such a thing at any age and a tinier few can afford, practice etc and actually do that.

I don't know what we have to criticize the 95% who will put 3,k miles on a Ducati ever, then love it the rest of their lives. They're making it all possible for the 5% who will ride the wheels off. If they were only selling 400 bikes a year (5% of 2020 sales), they'd be out of business or you'd have to add a zero or two on the price tag. Adding a zero would take 5% down to 1% who would buy them which would make more sense because 400 is not an economically viable production number with anything plastic or metal molds let alone the complex parts. 40 totally hand made one-offs with absurd prices would be viable.

Anyway, yesterday an old man road up to me at a stop light on his bicycle with a smile flying off both sides of his head giving me thumbs up. He was exploding with joy off-loading his story about how he used to have a Ducati and omg omg omg so much joy back then and wow this one is so over the top and omg omg so much joy. Clearly these Panigale represent a lot of things to a lot of people. Seems like, Joy freedom the arrival of technology to create flying things of beauty not just surveillance and weaponry.

endodoc said:

I guess my point was sales and marketing. All the marketing goes to the lowest % of users across the board. Guess which guys are in the official Ducati videos. The 5% and that goes for all the muscle car commercials as well. How come I never see a Mustang commercial where mom is picking up the kids or dad is stuck in traffic. I find it a bit fascinating that’s all.

Click to expand...

endodoc said:

I missed my last sensitivity class. My bad. My point was why not make a V4 base with lights, signals and an on/off switch. No electronic aids, wings, etc. The bike would be less money and identical in appearance which satisfies everyone who wants to “look the part” and just as fast when you want to blast down the highway but void of stuff they would never use and the bike would be more reliable from an electrical perspective as a vast majority of of Ducati issues are electronic in nature. Just an idea.

Also interesting that all the Ducati videos are all centric to that 5% market. Where are all the videos of guys putting down the highway headed to the coffee house who buy the majority of their “track capable” Superbikes. It’s just interesting.

Click to expand...

It appeals to the Walter Mitty in most gear heads and sells bikes. Even if I rarely use 50% of a bikes capabilities doesn’t meant that lower 50% of capabilities is not wicked good and that a rider cannot discern and enjoy the difference between a V4S’s 50% vs a CB750’s . Everyone benefits and enjoys the products. All those underutilized sold bikes pays for WBSK, MGP, and product development.

I think it’s a mistake to think that those who don’t track or race enjoy their bikes any less or are somehow unworthy of them

37NG900X said:

It appeals to the Walter Mitty in most gear heads and sells bikes. Even if I rarely use 50% of a bikes capabilities doesn’t meant that lower 50% of capabilities is not wicked good and that a rider cannot discern and enjoy the difference between a V4S’s 50% vs a CB750’s . Everyone benefits and enjoys the products. What I don’t relate to are those who actually track and even race running down those that don’t. This seems more prevalent among certain marquee’s than others.

Click to expand...

The racers are not "running down" you street lot, let's be clear.

No, as a street rider, you cannot "discern and enjoy the difference." Absolutely not. Even an experienced racer takes a lot of development and evolution and many years of racing many bikes to discern what a bike is telling him and to have a meaningful conversation with his suspension builder or electronics engineer. Forget street rossis. All a street rider knows and will ever experience is marketing material that Ducati sells him.

We (racers / track-only riders) are amused that you want to try so hard just to look cool (meaning, spend $30k or $40k or $50k on a bike where its 100% certain that you will never experience or even get to understand what its motogp-derieved slide control does for instance because street riding is so rudimentary and low skill).

Now if you disagree with me about street riding being for fred flintstones and say "but I go fast on street bro" then you are even dumber than I am giving you credit for. Going triple digit speeds on the street and pretending to drag knee endangers other people's safety, breaks laws and generally brings a bad name to this sport we all love. Don't be a street clown, which a lot of street riders buying 200 hp bikes are. Period.

Actually, if you bought that CB750, I would respect you more because you are doing something for the pure enjoyment of the activity rather than a status symbol or badge. If you said just riding a motorcycle and seeing the sights gives you pleasure, I will respect you for that. If you said creating art by changing components on a motorcycle to your taste gives you pleasure, I will respect you for that. Don't try to fit it and fake your understanding of the sport. Be your own.

Keep selling them and I hope people keep buying them, more for me to choose from when traded in! Roll that Akra exhaust into your monthly payment....love it! I bought a $40k bike for <$16k when it was 3y old and it only wears slicks, one of the best mechanical purchases I ever did.

I was just admiring a V4S Speciale that was in my local shop as a trade in, full Akra and of course....the RAM iphone mount. Do I care? Not a bit...could be my future bike (if I was ever in the market for 200+hp again, a used V2 is more likely in my sights).

Vbreeze said:

It's really simple. These things are "Aspirational," and ambitions. "Aspirational marketing and design."
You don't sell anything shiny and wildly expensive by marketing it with "you're getting the standard, stay the same, don't grow." You sell things that are "aspirational."

Everyone who buys one wants to associate with the racing lifestyle, not everyone can do that all of the time. Some just get to look some get to practice and hope to become. Everyone starts out somewhere. There are a lot of people who study & work their ass off, raise kids etc, to arrive at middle age and finally have time to try out crazy stuff. Here they get a 200hp bike because they're all grown up now, and find out the physics of the situation. A tiny % of humans can manage such a thing at any age and a tinier few can afford, practice etc and actually do that.

I don't know what we have to criticize the 95% who will put 3,k miles on a Ducati ever, then love it the rest of their lives. They're making it all possible for the 5% who will ride the wheels off. If they were only selling 400 bikes a year (5% of 2020 sales), they'd be out of business or you'd have to add a zero or two on the price tag. Adding a zero would take 5% down to 1% who would buy them which would make more sense because 400 is not an economically viable production number with anything plastic or metal molds let alone the complex parts. 40 totally hand made one-offs with absurd prices would be viable.

Anyway, yesterday an old man road up to me at a stop light on his bicycle with a smile flying off both sides of his head giving me thumbs up. He was exploding with joy off-loading his story about how he used to have a Ducati and omg omg omg so much joy back then and wow this one is so over the top and omg omg so much joy. Clearly these Panigale represent a lot of things to a lot of people. Seems like, Joy freedom the arrival of technology to create flying things of beauty not just surveillance and weaponry.

Click to expand...

This is well said.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk